#193 – Persuasion Street Fight W/ Paul Ross

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Episode Summary

What self-limiting beliefs do you have that may be holding you back? What stories are you stuck in that hold you back from achieving your goals and dreams? Unbeknownst to most — the thoughts and words people use on a regular basis are what shape their behaviors which creates the trajectory of their future. This episode will help you identify your recurrent thoughts and patterns that may be sabotaging the life you desire and will help you redefine them. 

Paul Ross is an expert in NLP. What is NLP? Listen in and learn all about it. I’m familiar with NLP, but wow, Paul uses examples in this episode that had my jaw dropping throughout our conversation. I realized for myself that there are many words I use that are weak in comparison to what’s possible.


Paul emphasizes that our language (thoughts and words) create our realities — both good and bad. When our self-talk is full of negative thoughts (invisible words) — our reality will match up with those words because those words create our reality. Our moods and narratives become the life story we live in. So, if the life story isn’t the way we want — it’s time to look at and change our language.  

This starts by reflecting on: “Where did these beliefs and stories come from? Are they mine that I chose? Or, were they handed to me from my family and/or environment? Am I attached to these? If so, Why?”.

That’s personal. What about professionally? Paul states that every conversation we have is an attempt to sell our point of view and our perspective. In each conversation we can expand each other’s minds in how we view a topic. If you know how to model and better influence a person, you have a much higher chance of getting your point across. Which can lead to more sales. And, better relationships.

This is a powerful episode. I learned that NLP is one of the most effective methods for creating rapport with your unconscious mind to rapidly release old programming, shift your beliefs, and change your behavior to create massive results in your life and business.

Let me know your Ahas! I had many of my own. 

Paul Ross is an author, speaker, trainer, Master Hypnotist, and Master Practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming. For the past 30 years, he’s taught thousands of people the power of language to persuade, sell, heal, turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones and pain into passion.

Some of the topics we dive into are:

  • How To Develop A Sense Of Trust With A Person
  • How To Make A Person Think Your Idea Is Their Own.
  • How To Grab People’s Attention
  • Subconscious Communication
  • Hypnosis
  • Pattern Interrupts
  • Mirroring
  • When To Be Vague And When To Be Specific
  • Trance Phrases


Pauls Website

Subtle Words That Sell

Pauls Linkedin Profile

Sovereignty Academy


Listen Now

You can also click on the timestamps below to jump to those specific points in the conversation.
Read Full Transcript

This transcription was made by using Otter.ai so it is not 100% accurate.

Krisstina Wise [0:00]
Hello again and welcome back. In this episode interview Paul Ross, Paul is the author of subtle words that sell how to get your prospects to convince themselves to buy. He’s also well known speaker trainer, Master hypnotist and master practitioner of neuro linguistic programming NLP. He’s been featured on media outlets like Fox, CNN, NBC huffpost, and the Rolling Stone for teaching people the power of language, how to persuade, so he’ll turn stumbling blocks into stepping stones and pain into passion. This was a fun interview. Even though he started answering my questions before I even finished asking them he offered lots of nuggets that were jaw droppers for me, I must admit, I never knew that very subtle words can make all the difference in effective communication. Who knew the words together explore we our invite, and share could be the difference between a sale or not? In this conversation, Paul shares how to create rapport and leadership in a minute with four simple words. He talks about pattern interrupts to help people get closer to Yes. And he talks about trans faces like, do you ever find yourself dot dot dot, which helps prospects feel more comfortable with you from the get go? If you are in business in sales, this is a must listen, in less than an hour, you’ll leave this conversation with words you can use immediately that will make you more money. Please enjoy my conversation with Paul Ross. Paul, welcome to the wealthy, wealthy podcast.

Paul Ross [1:26]
Thank you. And it’s my honour as we explore this entire world of subtle persuasion to be leading you into an adventure of discovering how we can use the power of subconscious communication to really test our results.

Krisstina Wise [1:42]
Yeah, and I’m really curious about this, which is why when your team connected to say, Hey, does Paul Ross sound like somebody who’d be interested in interviewing? And I read everything I said, Yes. Because I’ve heard a lot lately, as far as let’s say, NLP and hypnosis and, and subtle persuasion. And it seems to become I mean, it’s obviously it’s been around for a long, long time. Y’all a sudden, I’m always I’m always always noticed, when I see certain things turn that used to be like, kind of out, off the out of the mainstream becomes more mainstream. So my, my curiosity is what shifted? Like, why did something that was non mainstream become more mainstream? And one of those things is, is NLP and hypnosis, again, been around forever? So we can you share a little bit more about your history with both of these and what it is, and how you came to study this?

Paul Ross [2:37]
Sure. Well, something that’s not in my biography, because I like to sort of springing it on hosts. And during the podcast is I came to this from a very unusual way, I did not come to it through the world of sales. I am a former dating coach, and actually someone who’s fairly famous doing it. And my involvement was that as a teenager, and a man in my 20s, I couldn’t get a date to save my life. And I was very, very shy, very ashamed of myself. And I tried everything to cure my confidence problem and my terrible communication skills, absolutely horrible. I had no emotional intelligence, no ability to communicate, it was awful. And I stumbled upon an LP a book by bandler and grinder who are the co founders of NLP called frogs into princes, I immediately knew that this could be the answer to my problems. So using the NLP techniques and a little bit of what they teach about hypnosis, I was able to cure my shyness, and then learn to communicate in a way that evoked the imagination, the emotions, and lo and behold, I got my first girlfriend at the age of 25, I was a slow learner. And I began to teach and coach in this and, and about 10, I continually got emails from people said, Thank you very much. I found my wife, sometimes they attach pictures of their kids. But then about 15 years ago, the emails shifted a little bit, I get emails from people saying, Hey, thank you, again for giving me the skills to meet my fiance or whatever it was. And I’ve been using them to make a killing in my sales career. And in my business, I thought, This is interesting. So I went back, I interrogated them. And then I started to apply this stuff. I went, wait, this works for sales. And I began to use it my own sales process and then teach it to other people. Because essentially, a sales like a date. If you think about it, if you think about the metaphor, you’ve got to do your prospecting, your cold calling, if need be, you’ve got to set the appointment. You’ve got to present your marketing plan. You’ve got to handle objections, do your closes and see if you can get referrals or repeat business. So that’s basically my model how I came to it. Now, as the The other part of your question, why is NLP and hypnosis suddenly in the forefront? I don’t know that it’s any more in the forefront than it’s ever been? I think possibly because we’ve just finished a big election cycle. Excuse me, there have been a lot of pundits analysing how the candidates are using subliminal subconscious communication to get their message across in a powerful way. But I’ve seen NLP taught for business purposes for quite some time.

Krisstina Wise [5:30]
Share with us, what is NLP? Where did it come from? You said

Unknown Speaker [5:36]
What is it? And

Krisstina Wise [5:37]
why does it work? Well,

Paul Ross [5:38]
Christina, I’m laughing because I’m reminded of an old joke. If you ask two rabbis a question, you’ll get 50 opinions. So if you sat down with two annelle peers and ask them what is NLP, you get a tremendous amount of variance in your answers and disagreements, I can only speak to how I’ve used it. So to me, NLP has a few components. First of all, it’s a model of how language structures consciousness, shapes, decisions, and drives behaviour. So it’s a semantic linguistic model for creating states of consciousness. That’s kind of using $5 words, but we can unpack that later if you want. There’s also a model for doing psychotherapy, a model for doing hypnosis that they learned from studying. I think my opinion the greatest hypnotist of all time, Milton H. Erickson, who was a psychiatrist, a medical doctor who revolutionised hypnosis, he took it out of the dark ages of looking at the watch, and you were in my power. And he made it something you could do conversationally through indirect suggestion. He was the hypnosis, what Einstein was the physics, he didn’t just change a few techniques, he revolutionised the whole way, the whole paradigm of looking at trance and subconscious communication. And so there’s that as, excuse me, that aspect of NLP. And finally, there’s a set of postulates about how human beings work, that human beings always make the choice best choice available to them at the time, that people aren’t broken, just that what they do doesn’t serve them. They’re a bunch of postulates. So fundamentally, that’s what NLP is an academic way. But practically, it’s a way of I view that like this, to me, selling is not about getting your ideas in the other person’s mind. It’s about expanding their mind to include your ideas. And so for me, selling is about using techniques like NLP and subconscious communication, to create states of consciousness to shape an engineer, states of consciousness. Now, this is a completely wild, different way of looking at the whole topic. But I believe it’s a very ways of looking and thinking and acting about something that stands so far outside of what you’re used to doing, that have the possibility the potential bringing your results that are so far outside of what you’re used to enjoying. Does that make sense?

Krisstina Wise [8:17]
Yeah, I mean, you use you do use a lot of words there. And some of the things I wrote down was that I’d like to dig into a little bit is language that you know, we communicate, we use words we talk we, you know, this is what humans do. Birds fly, fish swim, we talk. But that’s different necessarily than language and understanding language using language and the power of language. Can you just talk a little bit more about like the power of language and how

Paul Ross [8:42]
human beings Yeah, all the research shows that human beings are actually hardwired, for language, it’s in the brain to process things linguistically. And we also are hardwired for grammar, even though we have to, so if I said, colourless ideas dream furiously. That’s a grammatically well formed sentence, even though the content is nonsense. But if I said dream, cure, dream, colourless ideas furiously, it doesn’t make any sense. It’s not semantically well formed. So our minds are hardwired for grammar. They’re hardwired, for language. And language is what again, structured, excuse me, structures, our consciousness. So if we start from the premise, I don’t want to be too academic, I want to bring it down to the ground. If we start from the premise that our words can shape the other person’s consciousness. And if we include in that the premise that it’s the state of mind, the other person’s in that will determine how persuasive we are, then it follows that we have to use our words to do that. So let me unpack it. That’s very academic. Let me Give you some specific examples if I may. Okay, so we’ve all been taught in sales that rapport is super important, correct. So if I wanted to create rapport in the first minute of talking to someone, I would use what I call implied relationship boards. So I would say something like this, here’s the wrong way to do it. The wrong way to do is say, before I present this material to you, I want to encourage you to just ask questions anytime you feel like it. That’s the typical way of doing it. But I would say, before we explore our marketing plan together today, I would just invite you to please share the questions that naturally arise. So I’m using these words, we explore our together, invite and share all of these words imply a relationship. So what’s the difference between saying, before I present this and saying, before we explore together, we explore it together implies that we’re already on the same side of the table, does it not? So through the power of implying relationship, it’s implying not stating if I said directly, we already have a relationship of trust. So listen carefully to what I’m going to say. People would just laugh me off the stage, or laughed me out of their house. But by implying it through these clever words, through these implied relationship words, we can create on an unconscious level, that sense of a connection. Does that make sense to you as as you review it in your mind?

Krisstina Wise [11:43]
Yeah, I mean, it’s fascinating, actually, just the the words that we use that, like you said, it’s a subconscious brain connection in a way that’s building trust without saying, Hey, we’re building trust together?

Paul Ross [11:56]
Exactly. We imply here’s the thing, whatever you can imply, to the other person, they will fill in the blanks with their own mind. You notice, I’m not saying in what way we’re exploring together. I didn’t say as we review the financials than this document today. I’m leaving it vague. So when you speak to someone with vagueness, again, they have to fill in the blank with their imagination, because here’s the principle, whatever you can get your prospect to imagine for themselves, will be perceived by them as being their own idea, and therefore they will not resist it. And one of the key ways to do that is to be vague. Before we explore this together today, am I saying how we’re going to explore it? Am I saying in what way we’re together? No, I’m leaving it vague. So when you’re vague, they have to fill in the blanks with their imagination. I did this if you go back, and you transcribe this podcast, you’ll see the very beginning. I said before, I’m very flattered as we begin this exploration of the world of subconscious languaging. Today, to be your guide. So I used it right out of the gate. And look at that word guide. Where there’s a guide, there must be what people who are guiding, where there’s an exploration, there must be a leader and where there’s a leader, there must be a follower. So I’m implying all these things without stating them. So on the subconscious level, or the unconscious level, I use them interchangeably. It doesn’t matter how you say it. And on the unconscious level, the unconscious mind is saying, Oh, I am being led. This is good. This is a value to me. I’m going to listen carefully and give all of my focus. That last bit is super important. Because nowadays, the big enemy to your sale is not your competition. It’s not your price. It is your prospects inability to pay attention anymore, because people are just overloaded. I show you in a moment I will hold up in my hand One of your number one enemies to making a sale. Are you ready? Mm hmm. People walk around with their faces in this constantly. we’re bombarded with with text messages. Facebook, instant messenger Twitter. If you’re single, perhaps Tinder I wouldn’t know anything about that. I’m happily taken sorry ladies. So people no longer have the attention to give you the attention, even if they go in initially interested in what you have to say. And also we’re bombarded with choices. we’re bombarded with options, and a confused mind or an overwhelmed mind doesn’t make choices except on, on price. And if you can Heat on price, you’re on a race to the bottom. So this is why being able to subconsciously communicate that they’re going to pay attention to you and focus in is very powerful. Let me use a metaphor. I have a sheet of cardboard, and a sheet of gold foil and I want to conduct an electrical current. This is not a trick question, Christina, which one of those is going to conduct the electricity? Well, the foil, so consider your prospect state of mind to be that conductive medium, and your words to be the electricity, most of them are coming to you with a cardboard of boredom, suspicion, lack of trust in you, and also lack of trust in themselves, lack of trust in themselves that they can make a good decision. So we want to shift that into the gold foil of wanting to follow you have subconsciously seen you, as their leader, have been focused in on what you have to say, being willing to share their concerns with you. And I pre programmed that, if we go back, and that bit of language I excuse me, just a minute. Sorry, I’m mute, I turned down my own volume. Remember, when I said I invite you to share the questions. I didn’t say I invite you to ask the questions. I said, share. What’s the difference between sharing and asking? Do we share with people who don’t have a relationship with?

No. So even that simple word sets them up to have that gold foil state of consciousness where they believe that they feel safe to share their concerns. This is a great way to short circuit objections, because if people are already pre programmed to share the concerns, they’re not going to sit on top of them and create objections. Does that make sense?

Krisstina Wise [17:00]
Yeah, I mean, complete science. I

Paul Ross [17:02]
know it’s pretty. It’s pretty powerful, isn’t it?

Krisstina Wise [17:07]
Yeah, I find it fascinating just the choice of words, in an otherwise the same sentence is makes a complete radical difference in outcome. And that is,

Paul Ross [17:22]
Mark Twain said, the difference in the right word, and the wrong word, is the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug. So if you take what I’m teaching about subconscious communication, using subtle languaging, subtle words, you don’t have to replace your current sales process. This is something I really want to get across, if you have a sales process that’s working for you. And in fact, I only mentor and coach and train people who are already successful, I don’t teach an entire sales process. If you have a sales process, it’s already working for you. If you add in the power of subconscious languaging, the ability to influence people on the subconscious level, to create this perception of relationship and trust and focus, then you’re gonna, you’re going to massively increase your results. So you don’t have to replace your sales process. Instead, you might find yourself growing really comfortable, as you imagine just layering this stuff in. Now, I’m not sure all the ways that’s going to take place or when it’s going to happen. But I feel good knowing that you’re getting that understanding more and more.

Krisstina Wise [18:32]
Yeah, and I think that would be that was probably one of my biggest curiosities when I was looking at your information was okay, is this a whole new sales process? What is this? It’s like, no, the process works, we just want to change some of the words and like you said, some of the subconscious trust building and programming so that we have better outcomes, which at the end of the day, if we have a good product or service, we want more of those outcomes. And by just tweaking some words, if you will, through, like you said, kind of subtle art of persuasion, it can make all the difference in the world.

Paul Ross [19:02]
Yeah, again, I am not asking for people to replace their existing sales process. If it’s working. Well just add this in because I don’t teach an entire sales process. I don’t do that. There’s plenty of trainings out there that do it really well. I’m not knocking the other trainings, I’m simply saying they’re incomplete. They’re incomplete because they’re not teaching this stuff, or they’re not teaching it to the level where it’s practically workable outside of the seminar room, because there’s a difference between what works in the seminar and what works in the real world. When people come to an NLP seminar, or persuasion seminar, generally speaking, they’re raising their hands and saying, Yes, yes, I want it to work on me, because they paid good money to be there. Pre COVID they paid money for travel, and for hotel, etc, etc. but in the real world, where it’s Sort of like a street fight, I should have named the book, persuasion, street fight, no holds barred. You’ve got to get in there and battle with their lack of attention, their cynicism, their doubts about themselves, their doubts about you such at cetera. So you don’t have time to do a lot of the traditional stuff. And your prospects are hip. They’ve heard all the yes ladders. Wouldn’t you agree? Mr. Smith, it’s important to have financial success. Yes. Wouldn’t you agree that when opportunities presented to you, it’s important that you take it yet they’ve heard it all before? They’ve had it with the tag lines? The yes ladders, the assume closes? Because I’ve heard it before. It’s sort of like when I sat in the back of the book I write about that. So a tactic identified as a tactic disarmed. That’s why some of the traditional processes, in addition to be incomplete, are now antiquated.

Krisstina Wise [21:00]
We’re so conditioned for that, too, right? Because Don’t you know, when you’re being sold to because it, I mean, to you that used to be invisible would be the whole sales process. But to your point, we’re so used to being sold to and marketed to, I mean, we can see it like a million miles away, and now I just feel manipulated.

Paul Ross [21:16]
But when you’re vague with your language, the thing is, people can’t remember what you said, they just get the perception that you understand them. So if I said, Listen, I understand that you want to sell your home, because it’s important, you move to an area that’s closer to where your kids go to school. And you’re also looking to refinance, and blah, blah, blah. It may be too specific. But I say, you know, as we’re sharing this exploration of your needs today, I’m not sure if you find yourself really recognising what those are, just how quickly you’ll feel comfortable sharing them with me. But as that’s taking place, I want to assure you that I really am here to serve you in all the ways you can picture that taking place. Now, that sounds like a big mouthful, but within three minutes, people will forget what I said. Do you remember exactly what I said? But did you find yourself doing some imagining of what that might look like?

Krisstina Wise [22:15]
Yeah, yeah, I can see versus, I mean, again, when you’re, when you’re putting these side by side, it just makes a lot of sense, right? That it’s like, Okay, if I’m specifically telling them what they just said, or what I think their farm, yeah, like, repeating what I think they said specifically, as opposed to open it up for them to continue to explore into, to tell me what they want, then it’s their imagination and not my dictation.

Paul Ross [22:43]
So there’s a time in every sale in any good persuasion, and any good piece of influence, there’s a time to be vague, and a time to be specific. And then you have to know how to go back and forth between the two. An average salesperson doesn’t know how to be vague at all, a really great one knows when to be vague. But a superstar knows when to be vague and when to be specific, and how to go back and forth between the two, let me unpack that, there’s going to be a time in the sale where you have to be specific, you have to when it comes time to showing the facts, figures, data numbers, you have to be specific. Now you can set that up for them to be receptive to giving you their concerns by being vague in the beginning, as you write before you present it, but then there’s a time to be specific. So knowing the difference between the two and when to do one and when to do the other. That’s an advanced training. I can’t obviously get into that here. But it is something that’s very powerful. And the number one problem with sales trainings out there is they don’t teach being vague. They just don’t do it. So they’re incomplete in that sense. They’re not bad. I don’t want to name potential competitors, but some really good trainings out there.

Krisstina Wise [24:05]
Let’s talk about words. Is there like a manual of words, which are these really good, you know, subtle, persuasive words?

Paul Ross [24:14]
I book subtle words itself. This is what I, you know, this is 15 years of study and teaching an application and four months of writing, people asked me because they’re impressed when I tell them I’m an author. They say How long did it take you to write the book? I say four months, but it was 15 years of study. I really think this is a really good introduction. And then I have courses in training and I’m not going to promote myself here. That’s not the purpose of this.

Krisstina Wise [24:43]
So let’s talk about so if I, I’m going to read your books. I’m super curious now and I’ve written down a few I have we explore our inviter, yes,

Paul Ross [24:56]

Krisstina Wise [24:58]

Paul Ross [25:00]
Can I throw some more value? Now? I normally wouldn’t do this. This is normally reserved for VIP clients who pay me a lot of dough. But can I give out a bonus to your listeners? Is that okay? Not bad? Yes. Okay, I also have what are called trance phrases. If you could write this down, find yourself. discover yourself. These are phrases designed to create an under triggering unconscious mechanism for automatic obedience, and instant action. And let me and really powerful. So I want to unpack this with you, Christina, what does it mean? To find yourself doing something? Let me ask you, have you ever did you ever just find yourself with your head in the refrigerator? Wondering Wait, I don’t remember how I got here. And I don’t even know what I’m looking for that ever happened to you? Mm hmm. You ever just find yourself falling in love? Mm hmm. Do you ever find yourself falling out of love and thinking, what the heck was I thinking? Yes, you ever just find yourself driving down the highway and all of a sudden 10 minutes has gone by and you didn’t even recognise that the time had flown by suddenly, you’re 10 miles away from where you were thinking. All of these are hypnotic phenomena that happened to us all the time anyway. They’re hypnotic in the sense that there’s no conscious effort, no conscious authorship or or agency to them. They just happen unconsciously, which implies there’s no effort required. There’s no need to resist, and it’s going to happen automatically. So you can weave these into your sales process. So if I say before we share our marketing plan together, I’m not sure just exactly how you’ll find yourself growing more and more fascinated as you discover yourself really wanting to move forward today. You see what I’m doing there. Now I’m not only being vague, but I’m weaving in some more processed language to get them really triggering into trance states as it’s certain. It’s what it’s essentially doing. If I want to get technical, this is why I only share it with VIP clients is you’re setting up a hypnotic loop. So that every time you go through the process, they continue to reinforce the idea that they’re finding themselves that they’re discovering themselves, your every word you say once you say that is whittling away any resistance and opening them up to automatically want to do what you’re suggesting. So it’s taking the power of your suggestions. And it’s 10 axing them by putting him through that lens of finding themselves and discovering themselves. Now no one’s going to catch that. No one is going to catch it, it’s going to slide right through the conscious filtering mechanism.

Krisstina Wise [27:59]
Well, the device is going to save us noticed it when you were asking me Do you ever find yourself like I, I felt the trance because I was in it with you. And it’s it’s I mean, I was there and I felt the kind of the floating in a way like yeah, you had me at that point. Right?

Paul Ross [28:18]
Exactly. And this brings up the power of asking questions. Sometimes the very way in which you ask a question will trigger the deeper mind. See, I don’t want the beginning to trigger the part of the mind it’s judges who facts, figures, data. Because facts anything you can put on a chart, graph, prospectus, curriculum vitae, a whatever, that’s going to trigger the mind that processes in a sceptical way. So I don’t want that. It’s just like the difference when I used to teach dating, I used to teach guys don’t ask What do you like to do for fun? Because that will trigger a factual answer. I taught him to say when you want to do something that makes you feel Damn, life is good. What do you love to do?

Krisstina Wise [29:08]
Wow, that’s such like a radical difference right?

Paul Ross [29:12]
radical difference in it evokes a different state of mind. Because you have to dive down and really think about what satisfies you may be what you’re craving. So asking the kind of questions that trigger a deep hypnotic search and hypnosis, we call it a trance derivational search. That’s just a big word. To say that when you use the right language, the unconscious mind will go down. Deeper and deeper now and find the meanings that apply to yourself. And again, if you proceed that you’re finding your own meanings, then there’s no resistance. Yeah, totally makes sense. Well, then the resistance just disappears for you, doesn’t it?

Krisstina Wise [29:54]
It really does. It does. Yeah, it just it just evaporates like there is no more resistance right? Like I said, the the sensation is almost like floating along without

Paul Ross [30:04]
see how this would be useful? You don’t see how this would be useful on a date.

Krisstina Wise [30:10]
Yeah, now, I might call you on the side to get some good dating tips here.

Paul Ross [30:14]
Okay, I might rate for that it’s 850 an hour. 850 bucks an hour.

Krisstina Wise [30:20]
Gotcha. All right. Well, let’s talk about I’m curious about the hypnosis piece. Because again, I’ve noticed that the NLP, those that teach it or train it, or write about it, or whatever, it’s also connected to like, Master.

Paul Ross [30:34]
Yeah, no, I can’t. But yeah. Yeah, I’ll explain it. So one branch of NLP I forgot to mention is modelling essentially, the heart of NLP is modelling I don’t mean what my girlfriend does, for a living, she’s a model. What I mean is looking at someone’s talent, looking at someone who’s really good at something, let’s say a great entrepreneur, and extracting the nature of their talent, looking at the structure of how they discipline themselves, looking at the structure of the strategies they use for motivation, how they visualise how they visualise over time, how they structure their time, what their beliefs are, how they treat their body. So through using NLP modelling technology, we extract out the nature of someone’s talent, we we subtract out as much as we can and still get the result. And then we systemize it and teach it. So NLP is a modelling or mapping technology was what was used to come up with the NLP hypnosis model. And to do that they studied again, Milton Erickson. So bandler, who’s a mathematician and john grinder, who is a professor of linguistics, use their skills as a mathematician because mathematicians look at equations and formulas. And john grinder, being a professor of linguistics, understood the power of language. They went and they live with Milton Erickson, they annoyed the hell out of him, too. He didn’t much like them at the end of it. But they studied how he used his body language, his voice tonality, the words he spoke is what they call analogues analogues, or anything that vary along a range. So voice tone, voice, speech, voice, tempo, they studied his body language, then they studied digital, the words he actually used. And they came up with this map or model of IX, ericksonian hypnosis. So they use the NLP modelling technology to come up with the NLP hypnosis model. Does that make sense?

Krisstina Wise [32:46]
I think so. Yeah. And I can see why they’re connected as well. And why why the hypnosis piece like how do these to link the language and the hypnotic state like the,

Paul Ross [32:58]
again, the way Milton Erickson used his language was in a very subtle way to use indirect suggestion. So he didn’t say, you’re going to go into trance right now you’re going to go deeper into trance, and you’re going to listen to every word I say. He would say something. Now, I don’t know which of those chairs you might find yourself sitting down in. Or an all the ways you’ll go deeply into trance as we speak together. But I’m just wondering, really wondering, what’s it feel like when a person can relax, and focus in Christina. And as you continue to nod, that piece of you that feels that floating sensation, can develop more and more, maybe to the point where there’s that nice little tiny smile, the tiniest smile that begins to play across your face. So he would say something like that it’s all indirect. Instead of saying sit down in that chair, go into trance, or imagine floating on a cloud, all that other stuff, he did it indirectly, for the most part. Now that is a gross oversimplification of his work. That’s like take taking Mozart insane, Twinkle, twinkle little star is the body of his work, but it’s the best I can do in a two minute answer on your podcast.

Krisstina Wise [34:23]
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you. And what is what is the benefit of hypnosis? Like Where did where and when do you use it? As opposed to I use today?

Paul Ross [34:33]
I use it’s been it’s become so integrated into how I move through the world. It’s very funny. I had a girlfriend. Her name was Christina. She only had one s in there. And she said to me, Paul, could you ever turn off your skills? Would it be possible? And I said, You know, I could turn off the active part of the skills, the way I talk, the way I move, etc. But the passive side in observing people. It’s like asking someone who’s a native French speakers not to understand it when someone’s speaking French, it just becomes the natural filters which I proceed my world.

Krisstina Wise [35:09]
So what if I were a client of yours? When when would you intentionally use hypnosis? Like why would we use this as a tool to

Paul Ross [35:19]
says, I would use it to deal with a client first, when I train, I, first and foremost, tackle people’s beliefs, I go inside, and I use hypnotic techniques, always with their permission and consent, to look at their beliefs about their sense of capability, their sense of possibility, their sense of what they deserve, and then their sense of identity, sense of identity is the hardest to change. But so let me unpack those. So the sense of capability means what can I do? What is it that I can do? What are my skills? So that’s relatively easy to change? possibility means what’s possible for me to enjoy or achieve in the world? deservingness means what am i equal to? What do I contribute in such a way that I’m equal to receiving equal value? And then identity has to do with I am. So if someone for example, comes to me and says, I just can’t close the big money clients, I teach them a three word phrase to undo that. Or if they say, I’m a loser, when it comes to big money clients, can I share this, again, is something I only share with VIP clients. But may I share this bonus with your with your audience, please? The three words are the three words are up until now. So I would have them say up until now, I couldn’t close the big money clients. So those three words essentially they keep rapport with the unconscious mind, they don’t deny there is a problem. But they bind the problem in time and they say it was a problem. It’s no longer a problem, and it won’t be a problem in the future. So the unconscious mind can’t tell time. To the unconscious mind all time is happening right now. That’s part of the structure of a trauma to the traumatised person, that car accident or that murder or whatever it’s happening right now. So when you bind a limited belief in time, the unconscious mind understands, to disempower that limiting belief. And then I remove it from their sense of identity when they say I’m a loser with big money clients. Up until now, you didn’t have the skill to close big money clients. So notes now it’s no longer a matter of identity, which is hard to change, it’s now a matter of their skill, which is easy to change.

Krisstina Wise [37:51]
And that is so fascinating.

Paul Ross [37:53]
I know, this is why I can take someone who’s stuck for years really stuck. And untie and also I work I already I only want to work with people who are super successful, I can take someone who’s super successful and still take him to the next level. Right now I’m working with a real estate agent in Northern California, I work with him remotely, he’s up in Danville. He does $600,000 a year in commissions, he wants to reach a million. But the first two months of working with him are all about changing his beliefs about being able to own that to be up to that and being able to reach that level of success. So we’re going back and and we don’t do it through talking about his childhood. I don’t care about any of that we’re working on the unconscious level. I’m teaching him some techniques about effective personal programming. I teach him a meditation practice. Because I believe to really succeed, you have to utilise with skill, three different kinds of consciousness. There’s witness consciousness, which is the ability to look at your patterns rather than looking through them. There’s creative consciousness where you programme your mind for success. And then there’s wheel consciousness where you just focus, keep focused, nothing stops you, you keep moving forward. And I think in our society, those second and third ones are taught how to use your imagination and how to use your well very necessary, completely necessary, but very few people teach witness consciousness at but you have to have it in order to learn from your mistakes. If you’re hypnotised by your mistakes, if you cannot, if they become what you look through your world at, then you’ll look at your pain rather than your possibility and your progress. So the only thing I teach to my clients which I’m going to claim as unique, no one else teaches this. I give them a specific implementable is that a word a specific, easy to implement process for actually learning from every experience? How many times have you heard the fortune cookie piece of advice just Learn from every experience. Have you heard that before? Oh, yes.

Does anyone give you a specific technique or process to do that?

Krisstina Wise [40:09]

Paul Ross [40:11]
never. So I have come up this is another place where traditional sales trainings are lacking, is giving a specific technique to learn. Because I don’t care whose system you’re going through, you’re going to have setbacks and mistakes. And unless you have a way of looking at those mistakes, rather than looking through them, you’re just going to keep repeating them, or it’s going to take a long time to figure it out. But what if you could instantly figure out what you were doing incorrectly, and immediately go out and apply the lesson? How quickly would you rock it up the learning curve, and then therefore rocket up your income potential. And I learned this through my dating coaching career, guys came to me incredibly stuck repeating mistakes, it’s filled with shame, and a belief in their failure. I’m talking about dealing with guys who are 3040, even 50 years old, and never had a day in their life. So you could see they dwelt on their mistakes, I had to figure out pretty quickly how to get them the hell out of that. Because I could teach them to visualise, and a lot of them would succeed. But a lot of them that was not enough, they had to learn this witness consciousness, I had to develop a really fast acting method for them, to learn from their mistakes. And also notice what they did, right. And again, this is what I think as a coach and a trainer and a teacher I bring to the table that really is unique. And as you in the audience are watching this, I’m not sure all the ways you might stop and joyfully find yourself imagining just all the benefits that you might have, as you apply to work with me. But anyway, let’s continue with this conversation and let that float in the background.

Krisstina Wise [41:54]
It planted in my subconscious right now.

Paul Ross [41:57]
You know, we can schedule a call if you want to work. Some of my best clients come to me as being people who hosted me on their podcast.

Krisstina Wise [42:06]
So you’re going to tell us the, your IP your what you discovered as far as how to break people through their patterns to witness to

Paul Ross [42:21]
that is well, I’m both going to be cagey. And why is it the same time that really is two to three hour training, I don’t have time to do that. But the brief taste of it is to learn to be present with whatever feelings that come up from the error mistake, and then be able to look at it in such a way where you can extract out first and foremost, everything you did, right? And then everything that needs to be corrected on multiple levels. What did you do in terms of the way you used your voice? Your body language? What did you do at the beginning, the middle the end? What was your preparation process, your review process, etc. It really is a intricate algorithm that only someone with my skill set can teach and it is my IP that I’ve given away some good value on that. I’m not going to give away my gold nuggets. I’ll give you I’ll give you some nuggets. I’m not going to open the safe and hand it out. This is my livelihood.

Krisstina Wise [43:27]
Yeah, you just kind of have

Paul Ross [43:28]
cats to feed my cats have expensive tastes. And my girlfriend isn’t cheap either. You know, I gotta keep cheaper in the shoppings.

Krisstina Wise [43:39]
That’s right. That’s right. I think the the takeaway there what I would want to ask my question into that, is it I think the answer is yes, based on the way I listened to you, but we get stuck in patterns and the word I mean, they’re there their subconscious, we can’t see them. And it’s just kind of beating one’s head against the wall. Like here I am in the situation again, here I am in the situation again. So can we start to notice and witness our patterns on our health and coaching course?

Paul Ross [44:09]
Well, coaching and training is really I’ve spent so much money on coaching. I know I’ve never spent a penny, I’ve invested money. And because we’re the right coach, you’re not spending money, you’re investing in skill. An expert is someone who’s sort of one of my coaches said, Look, I paid your idiot tax, which was sort of a rude way of saying I’ve made all your mistakes and found out how to walk the path and correct them. What was your question again? I’m sorry, I went on.

Krisstina Wise [44:37]
Yeah. Can we do this on our own is there you’re saying that there’s technique that we can use to help it

Paul Ross [44:42]
I do have? Well, I have a course on it that teaches it. Yeah. But it’s it’s possible. I think you needed a coach and guide to develop the practice.

Krisstina Wise [44:56]
Got it. Got it? Yeah, I think I mean, that’s really it’s funny as hell. This conversation today and one of my coaching sessions and and you know with I think it is the value of a coach because we can we will we can be the witnesses and see the patterns or see the things that one can’t see on one on one zone and, and so anyway, I was just curious because I was just in that conversation of man I see this pattern and I know you can’t see it, but can we talk through it?

Paul Ross [45:21]
Well, here’s a here’s the thing, the big change happens for a person when they’re no longer looking through their patterns, but they’re looking at them.

Krisstina Wise [45:33]
That’s good, you know? Yeah, it makes me one of my favourite books is called language in the pursuit of happiness by Chalmers, I think and, and that book language, in the pursuit of happiness.

Paul Ross [45:47]
In pursuit, I’m ordering that on Amazon,

Krisstina Wise [45:51]
it’s so good. It really it taught me a lot about language and sent me on my linguistic discovery. That’s not an LP. It’s not the subtle worse of words and these different things that you’re talking about. But it’s really looking at metaphors and, and again, the power of language and having having a for metaphors.

Paul Ross [46:08]
With all due respect, metaphor is a huge part of NLP. And it’s part of what I execute when I teach. And it’s part of what I teach people to use. metaphor is extremely powerful. When I was talking about states of consciousness. I use the metaphor, I use the sheet of gold foil, and a sheet of cardboard.

Krisstina Wise [46:28]
Yeah, so I’d be curious what you think about that book? It’s certainly one of my favourites. It’s kind of been a little bit of a Bible for me. Well, we are Oh, my gosh, you’re so interesting. I could just dig diver, yes. Okay, we will do that. We’ll go deeper. So we’re wrapping up on a time, you know, it’s gone by so fast our time together. So I’d like to ask a few questions. So I like to come into home base with all my guests. And the first one is, is if you said, Christina, if you really, really knew me, you would know that what’s something about you that few people know? That if they really asked, you would say, you know what, many people don’t ask me that question. But here it is.

Paul Ross [47:10]
I’m, madly, passionately in love with teaching. It is the love of my life. I told my girlfriend, darling, I love you. And when it comes to the love of my life, I have to tell you, it’s my work in teaching. And for she didn’t take that very well. But then she got it because she’s admires my passion.

Krisstina Wise [47:34]
I love that. Thank you. But

Paul Ross [47:35]
I think that kind of shines through anyway.

Krisstina Wise [47:37]
It does. Yeah, that’s not a surprise. So tell me, what’s it tell me a brag moment? What’s something you’re really proud of?

Paul Ross [47:47]
brag moment. I’m most proud of the results of my clients. I have someone who’s a loan officer for major company, they advertise on TV a lot when he started training with me, his biggest check was 3500 bucks. And he was also had to drive lift on the side to feed his wife and two kids and himself. Five months after working with me, he’s now in the top 10% of his company, and he just did a commission check for over $30,000 so that 10 extra results in five months. Plus, I know this sounds crazy. I used that little hypnosis and NLP to get him to stop drinking that was gonna destroy his marriage. So I’m most that’s a brag moment for me. I have so many of them, because I’ve changed so many lives. So that was a that was a huge one.

Krisstina Wise [48:40]
Nice. Let’s do it. On the flip side. What’s it like a big nasty failure? That’s been, you know, was embarrassing the beginning. But now you realise, Oh,

Paul Ross [48:51]
wow. I’ve had so many as an entrepreneur, we’re going to have them. And the difference between an entrepreneur and someone who is just gambling is the entrepreneur has a plan and learns from the lessons and knows how to pivot. So I did a man I had. Do we really have to go into this I did a venture with someone we really thought we were going to take the world of teaching a certain segment of engineers, my methods and my system, my systems, and we just found that after investing tonnes of time and money, all the assumptions we made were completely wrong. And I had to sell some retirement investments to cover my losses and that knocked my ego to the ground. And I also discovered that I as great as I am as a teacher, I’m not good at building funnels and models for marketing. After many failures, I had to recognise that’s not my strong suit. I had to hire several coaches to do it. And even joint venture partners were that Currently in a joint venture where my partner, that’s his wheelhouse building funnels, I provide the content and the face of the training, he, he makes the funnels, he knows how to do that. So my ego got in the way for many years, until after multiple financial hits, I got it, you have to know what you can’t do well, in order to succeed as an entrepreneur.

Unknown Speaker [50:22]
So true, so true. Let’s, uh,

Krisstina Wise [50:26]
one final question that I asked everyone, and you’ve done a lot of myth busting already when it comes to sales and, and even language, but it’s sort of like a big fat lie, a big fat myth that you see all the time that you deserve to publicly make

Paul Ross [50:41]
sure that you’re selling your product and service, but you’re never selling your product and service. You’re always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions. You’re not a salesperson, you’re a decision service technician.

Krisstina Wise [50:57]
Right, I want to say that, once again.

Paul Ross [51:00]
You’re never selling your product or service, you’re always selling decisions and good feelings about decisions. You’re not a salesperson. At the end of the day, you’re a decision service technician.

Krisstina Wise [51:13]
Why Wow, okay, that is such a great place to call this a close because I’m really going to be thinking about that one. Yeah, I think you just changed my world right there. Like just you’re never selling a product or service, you’re selling a decision and to feel good about that decision.

Paul Ross [51:26]
You’re selling decisions and good feelings about decisions. So it’s not enough to sell the decision. You have to sell good feelings because when you sell good feelings, you avoid buyer’s remorse. You get repeat business and you get one more art that can make or break your business. It rhymes was squirrels. referrals. Yeah, that’s right. I told you I’d blow your mind and be one of the best interviews you ever had. Did I live up to the brag? You did?

Krisstina Wise [51:57]
You deserve that? brag? All right. Well, Paul, you have been I mean, just talk about gold nuggets just dropped along the this full hour. So thank you very much. I look forward to getting your book I think it’s going to be quite annotated and underlined. And I’ll report back to you.

Paul Ross [52:12]
I’ll send you an autographed copy if you give me your address and you’re gonna I’m assuming put the contact information if people find yourself wanting to reach out to me and have a call.

Krisstina Wise [52:23]
Yes, so everybody they’ll know I do this in the outro but I’ll go ahead and say it here before I cut the outro but all of your your books and your websites and every place to connect with you I’ll be putting in the show notes to make it’s going out in our email as well. Paul, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your wisdom and your two years of life work.

Paul Ross [52:49]
I love it. I love it. It’s it’s joy in my life. It really is that my cats that my girl that my family that my girlfriend she’s for, but she I treat her well.

Krisstina Wise [53:01]
That’s awesome. But thank you so much. If you enjoyed today’s show, there are a few things you could do as a way to say thanks. First, simply hit the subscribe button to the wealthy, wealthy podcast. By doing so it helps both of us. You’ll never miss an episode and it helps me and my radians. Second, if you’re so ambitious, please leave a review while you’re at it. Third, just keep doing what you’re doing and continue to share the wealthy wealthy podcast with your tribe of friends and colleagues. On another note, although you likely listen to the podcast one remote, keep in mind that there are links to the guests and their work in the show notes that you can find at WWE podcast comm You can also find a ww podcast calm the latest information on my upcoming events and other things I’m creating to serve you in our mutual quest to live a wealthy wealthy life. Thank you so much for listening. See you next time.

What We Covered

[2:37] Tell us your experience in NLP and how you came to this field

[5:33] Share with us what is NLP?

[8:38] Tell us about the power of language.

[18:32] The smallest tweaks of words can make the biggest changes.

[21:00] We are so conditioned anymore to pick up when we are being sold too.

[22:00] Mirroring people to open more is a powerful tool to connect with people.

[24:45] So what some other keywords to use?

[30:25] Let’s talk about the hypnosis piece of NLP.

[34:24] What is the advantage of hypnosis? What are the benefits? Where and When do you use it?

[38:47] The three different types of consciousness

[42:15] So how do you witness your patterns?

[45:55] The use of metaphors in NLP

[46:55] If you really really knew me you would know that.

[47:40] Tell me a Brag moment.

[48:40] What do you perceive as a great failing?

[50:28] Bust a Myth for us.


“Find yourself. discover yourself. These are phrases designed to create a triggering unconscious mechanism for automatic obedience, and instant action.”

“So through using NLP modeling technology, we extract out the nature of someone’s talent, we subtract out as much as we can and still get the result and then we systemize it and teach it.”

“A Tactic Identified is a Tactic Disarmed. “

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