#32 – Ann Mowat: New Age Healing Starts With Ancient Practices

You are at the intersection of wealth, health, and happiness. Welcome to the WealthyWellthy Life.

I’m Krisstina Wise and welcome to the WealthyWellthy Life where I interview thought leaders who teach a counter-cultural approach to money, health, and happiness because great riches don’t matter if you’re sick, and good health doesn’t matter if you’re broke.

Today, I tackle health wealth with Ann Mowat. Ann is the founder of 512 Wellness, an acupuncture wellness clinic here in Austin. She’s a good friend and has played a serious role in my healing journey. Ann is a licensed acupuncturist specializing in sports medicine acupuncture and Chinese medicine. She is one of only two practitioners in the state of Texas officially licensed in sports medicine acupuncture, an exciting new field. She’s also the leader in women’s medicine, and she’s received extensive training in fertility treatment. Her entire practice here in Austin is devoted to gentle whole person healing for those who have found western medicine to be unfulfilling or ineffective.

In this interview, we talk about the ancient history of acupuncture, the origins of eastern medicine, and the concepts surrounding flow of energy for good health. She describes meridian points on the body. Where they are, and what they mean. In fact, she talks about these while she’s actually poking me with needles in those exact meridian points. We also discussed holistic wellness, and how this mindset is severely lacking in our culture especially when it comes to self-care. Like I said, we recorded this interview while Ann was giving me an acupuncture treatment. It was super fun, so I hope you get a real kick out of it. Enjoy.

Well hello, Ann and I are here. A little unconventionally we’re actually doing a podcast interview and an acupuncture treatment at the very same time. The idea today is that Ann can talk about what she’s doing and why she’s doing it We can dig a little more into acupuncture as a healing art, and into overall health and healing using acupuncture and other techniques. So, welcome Ann.

Thank you, thank you for being here.

I guess I’m welcome here.

Yes, welcome. Welcome to 512 Wellness. Yeah.

All right, so this is different than we’ve ever done a podcast before. So, we’ll see how it goes. I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. So, thank you for being willing to do this.

Yeah, I’m excited.

I don’t know. I’ve been coming to you for acupuncture couple of years now maybe?

You have. Yeah, I think it has been a couple years. Yeah.

I think I first came I was introduced to you right after I was coming out of my illness. We were using acupuncture as a treatment to help facilitate the healing.

Exactly.

I was still having serious sleep issues at the time too.

You were, yeah.

I was looking to you to see if we could help use acupuncture as a tool for helping facilitate some better sleep.

Yes.

And we had some success.

We did, yeah. You were getting some good sleep. That was great.

Yeah, so it was really fun. I bet that feels good when you see your patients have success.

It does. My whole goal is to just try to have people live their best possible life, and sleep is a big part of it as you know. We would get into patterns where you wouldn’t sleep, and then the anxiety would creep up, and then that chases your tail. So, once you’re able to calm down and sleep, we’re able to have you have the best possible life that you could.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Well, and so that’s what I love about you. I’ve done different acupuncture and different practitioners over the years, and what I love about you is I think you’ve done this incredible job of really merging, or intersecting, this ancient wisdom of acupuncture as a medicinal philosophy, and practice for healing that’s ancient. I mean, this started way before even recorded history really, right?

Right, like 4,000 years ago.

Okay, so it’s been around a long time.

It has.

It’s really tested in time. It’s been — it’s still here after thousands of years. So, it’s this ancient wisdom in a practice that stood the test of time that still gets really good results. But you’ve done this really amazing job from my perspective of how you’ve merged it with modern day life. It’s more than just a healing technique or technique that’s used that was used for purposes maybe that were a little bit different hundreds or thousands of years ago. How we use acupuncture as how you use it to help facilitate life today that’s modern, fast-paced. We’re out of balance. We feel stuck. We have these health issues. We’re not sure where they come from. You deal with a lot of women with infertility. Do you want to talk anything more about that, about how you merged the two of these together?

Yeah, that’s a great observation. I’ve worked really hard to do that to kind of take the mystery, I guess, of the old Chinese medicine. I tend to not talk to my clients, and –

Here, come stand over here so the camera can see your pretty face a little bit.

To not talk about it in terms of Chinese medical diagnosis, but I try to bridge the gap between east and west, and the reason I do that is just to take some of the mystery away to make it a lot more approachable to people. I think there is a little bit of fear of what is this, and what’s going to happen during the session, but in it’s essence what I really love about acupuncture was that it was formulated in nature. All of our ways of diagnosing if something is either too much or too little, too hot, too cold, too damp, too dry, and so you can look at it from a very nature perspective, and how that is transferred in the body. It’s a very complex yet very simple approach. I usually start with an excess somebody might be having digestive issues so their digestive system isn’t working really well. So, we’re able to calm that down, and balance that out if that makes sense.

What is some of the history behind acupuncture that started from what energy, and flow? Do you mind talking a little bit about some of the Chi, like based on where the practice came from, the flow of energy, the meridians. Give a little background there because I think a lot of people — I mean I’m guessing that everybody that listens has heard about acupuncture, and most people have probably had at least one acupuncture treatment in their life, but I’m not sure if they know the origins of this.

Sure. Of like  what’s happening more or less?

Yeah, yes.

The example that I really love to give to my clients is to picture a river, right? Everything is flowing, everything is really nice. That’s kind of like the Chi or the energy in our body. It’s basically how things flow, how our body functions. Okay? Take the mystery out of what the Chi is. Going back to the river analogy. Everything is flowing really nicely, and then let’s just say a storm comes, and a bunch of leaves pile up and create a little blockage. So, that’s a stagnation, and we would consider that a stagnation in the body. Things are not moving. Something is stuck within that little pathway. So, my job as an acupuncturist is to figure out where that stuckness is with that pile of leaves or I like to basically consider it a little pocket of micro-inflammation that’s not going to be picked up by the western doctors, but just how we view the body in its functionality. And so the needle, when it’s inserted, is basically coming in and taking those leaves out. The body sees it as if you are going to get a little pinch like a mosquito bite, and the body says, “Oh, something is going on there.” So, it sends all its red blood cells, and its white blood cells, and the lymph, and it flushes out that little pocket of inflammation to get things moving really smoothly again kind of like that river analogy.

So, anything could really cause a stagnation. It could be stress because our body tightens up and we clench in.  I mean as a lot of people will often say, “Oh, my shoulders are really tight and stiff. That’s where I carry my stress.” That’s a stagnation. Things are not moving very clearly in that area. Another stagnation is stomach. A lot of times people will get really stressed out, and then they’ll feel it in their tummy. They’ll get digestive upset, or they’ll lose their appetite. Again my job is to figure out why that symptom is happening, and move things along, and move the Chi in the body, move the Chi in the channels and the meridians, which we’ve since discovered that they are the neuron pathways in the body. There’s where the acupuncture points live. They discovered over the course of time that if you need all this particular point you can anticipate this type of response in the body. So, yeah. The pathways are the neural pathways of the body, and it’s basically how they body communicates and does all its functionality.

This was really discovered thousands of years ago, and so what I love about the ancient wisdom, and like you said getting back to nature is that this is thousands of years of people practicing, and learning, and building on this, and the lineage and passing it on, and so you think of the abundance of knowledge that has accumulated. That there is so much wisdom there, and it’s really wisdom that is honoring the wisdom of the body.

Exactly, exactly. It’s really tapping into the body’s own natural healing. It’s really what acupuncture is doing, and we’re just aiding with where we put the needles, and how we set up the treatment, or other modalities that we might use like Moxa, or Cupping, or Quasar, any of those other techniques, which are just other ways of moving Chi, moving what’s stuck, and creating balance. It’s all about creating balance.

Yeah, so it’s getting back to even I love some of the words you’ve used. You’ve learned balance. I think in life we feel out of balance so we used some of this terminology, but it has real meaning that we feel out of balance and we probably are out of balance. Our bodies are out of balance, and so we’re feeling this, and we have this as a word we used to describe something that’s actually really happening because nature likes to balance itself out.

Exactly, exactly. What I like to tell my clients is that any symptom that you’re having that’s not giving you the best possible life is a sign of an imbalance. It could be as annoying as seasonal allergies, or it could be something more specific like say infertility, which is a little bit more chronic, a little bit more complex, I should say, condition to treat. It’s really all about looking at — really, what is creating the imbalance? Is it a lifestyle habit? Is it something that’s happening in their everyday world? Is it stress? It could be a bunch of things that contribute to that.

Then you used another word when you’re describing the Chi, the Chi gets stuck. I think it’s another word we use to describe how we’re feeling in life overall. It’s more metaphoric, but it’s man I just feel so stuck. Stuck, and life is stagnant, and oh I just feel so stuck, and now in my life coaching what I’m doing with my clients, and listeners is I have a lot of people that will write to me, or talk to me and say, “I just feel stuck.” I can’t even tell you the number of times people are using this word. So, it’s really appropriate word really because there’s probably a lot of stuckness that’s physically in our body too, right? We’re feeling these things, but we don’t know why, but it’s actually there’s a lot of stuckness happening that we need to get moving. Like we need to get our energy, and our body flowing in a way that is designed to flow. Agreed?

Exactly. Agreed. Yeah, totally. I think when I first started practicing I always wanted to find a way to heal the person, or help them get better, and I since learned after observing patients that — I have somebody for one hour a week if I’m lucky, and I’m working with them. Then I realize that there’s all sorts of things in their everyday life that could contribute to this feeling of stuckness. Could it be a relationship, is it a job that they’re not really maybe happy with? Is it maybe not the best diet, maybe they’re not eating the most wholesome for their body? It could be a variety of reasons. So, I’ve really started to expand the idea of the treatment to help guide as you’re doing coaching people to look at the little aspects of their life that might be contributing to this feeling of stuckness.

I think a lot of times we go through life, and we follow this routine, and then all of a sudden you wake up, and you’re like, ” I’m not really quite sure this routine is working for me.” That could be a job that you’re not really happy with, and then that transforms into health issues. I see so much digestive issues, and insomnia issues, and ways that people are not addressing the imbalances that they have in their life. I think that’s where acupuncture is a really great tool because it accesses a conduit, a modality of change. Like you come in feeling tense, or tight, or restless, or agitated, or irritable, and you leave feeling relaxed. So, the idea is that when you’re in that place out in the real world, and I’ve had clients say this to me, and it’s really one of the best compliments. “Oh, this is my happy place. When I’m stressed I remember this room, and I remember this space, and I remember what it felt like to get off the table.” To me that is really what the work is all about. Giving a person a grounding place, an anchor to find calm and peace in their life really.

Yeah, so you make a good point there that yeah, maybe the acupuncture is a treatment itself that’s helpful, and healing, and it does what it does, but beyond that it’s giving people, or even a takeaway here is having your safe spot. your relaxation spot that if you come for no other reason that this is your 60 minutes of quiet, and nobody can bug you, or the phone is not ringing. That right there, it’s probably doing more healing benefits than the technique itself.

I agree, I agree. Yeah, it’s hard a lot of times –

Because we don’t do that. We’re not going that enough. We’re not taking care of ourselves. In fact, I just got back last night, late last night. In fact, I’m looking forward to this treatment today because I’m sleepy. I only had three or four hours of sleep last night getting back so late.  No more than that, but anyway, I went to Sedona, and had this really great wellness retreat. I went there thinking a little bit of a vacation after lots of hard work, and my mastermind event, and it takes a lot out of myself, and my team, but I’m the content creator. It’s a lot of pressure and stress. So, I knew I needed a break. Like okay, hard work. I need to go take a little time off, but I really put it more in that vacation category. Take a break, little rejuvenation. Go to Sedona. So one of my biggest aha, or takeaways from that trip was I had this own – this new awareness, or realization maybe that it was such — coincidentally it’s what’s calling me that I need to do, but the whole four days, five days, was this wellness retreat center, this spa, and it’s all these treatments. But there’s no cell phone, it’s all organic food. They encourage you to journal. It hikes up into the Oak Creek in Sedona Canyon.

Oh, it sounds amazing.

 And biking, and scenic hikes, and so this combination of rest, but being a little bit physically active, but in nature. So, all of that, and just then the pampering, and treatments, and journaling. What I realized is oh no. This is different than vacation. Vacation is taking a break, and going to have fun, and we’re not doing enough vacation time either, necessarily, but Gary and I have really incorporated that vacation into our lives. The more playful, just time off the grid, and get away from business, and go explore, and venture, and vacation. What I realize from this trip was no, this was about renewal. Recharge me, plug in back in for me. Filling back up just me Then being taken care of at this environment where the whole place was about taking care of me and others. So, I realized, “Oh, Krisstina, there’s the lesson. You have to create space just to take care of you.” That’s different than vacation.

Exactly, exactly.

And especially as women we’re not very good about that. So, what you’re doing here is a little bit of that. If it’s just 60 minutes a week it’s your space to renew, and I will help be a part of that.

Exactly. Exactly. And it’s amazing. It’s awesome that you had that experience. I think that’s — in my own personal life I’m starting to see the need for that recharge, that reset to fill your cup because especially as women our life is so busy, and that idea of not necessarily taking time to mother, or care for yourself because you’re always giving and giving to other people. I look a lot at the acupuncture, and other alternative if you will, modalities do the same thing, I think that it’s an exciting time for alternative healing modalities, if you will because more and more people are embracing them, and seeking them out. But I also think that there’s a part of our culture that we’re not taking wellness into consideration as part of our overall health. We only think of ourselves, or our body if we’re sick or we’re not feeling really great. I think that’s the work that you bring, and the lesson that you learned on your trip is that it’s really, really important especially in this 24/7 go, go, go world that we’re living in to take time to recharge. The Yen yoga over the Bikram yoga, the meditation, the quiet space, the nice music, the bedtime routine where you start winding down, and limiting screen time — something that we also do. I think it’s really important.

We need to get to the balance again. It’s great, go be active, and create, and do, and achieve, and those can be good things too but they need to be balanced. Like you said, with the Bikram yoga, with the Yen yoga. Yeah, there’s time from Bikram, but not necessarily all Bikram. Go to the Yen, and really relax, and rejuvenate. Again we go back to that balance. The downtime as much as the up time. Be up, and kill it while you’re up.

Exactly.

Be down to balance out that high up.

Exactly, exactly, and knowing yourself well enough to know when you need that recharge time instead of trying to push it. That’s when you’re going to start seeing other problems. In Chinese medicine, the basic concept that we have is really yin and yang. Yin is basically the restorative, the night time, the quiet, the female, the feminine. Yang is more the masculine, the active, the during the day. And so, in its most simplistic sense, acupuncture and even trying to live your best life is all about creating balance between those concepts, right? If we started burning the candle at both ends we’re going to burn through our yin, the need to restore, and you’re going to start seeing symptoms in that category like insomnia, or night sweats, or that sort of thing. So, even 4,000 years ago they were determining the need to restore and rejuvenate, when to be active and when to rest. That sort of thing.

Yeah. In lifestyle today it’s harder than ever. So really, I think what we need to realize is that it has to be an objective almost. Like we do really have to honor this downtime, and want to be conscious of it. However, we have to include it in our life because if not we will break down.

Exactly. Some people might use the term boundaries. Boundaries at the phone, and when you work, and how you work because we’re accessible to work all the time now. I’ve liken it to habit. I’ve realized that change really comes from making small habits over a course of time, right? So, if it’s going to bed 15 minutes earlier, or drinking a little bit more water, or realizing, “Oh my gosh, I just had a killer meeting. I worked really hard for it. I need to go take a walk outside, and just reconnect with nature.” Learning our own individual selves, and what our signs of depletion are.

That’s good, there’s another thing you said too, which – that acupuncture is a methodology. Is a modality I think is the word you used. To help facilitate healing, rejuvenation, relaxation, moving things that get stuck, and facilitating that. But it really works – I think another thing that we do in western culture beyond just go, go, go, burn the candle at both ends, and not realizing the potential harmful consequences of that, and sickness, or illness, or just unwellness if that’s a word that comes with it. But there’s this other side too of this western belief I think even though it’s maybe more of an unconscious belief, but it’s there that we want to go get fixed, and so we go to the doctor to get a pill, or come fix me, and do something to fix me right away, and we keep looking for that magic pill.

The real magic pill that we swallow, or the metaphorical magic pill, but it’s the – I don’t know where this comes from, but I think we all just believe if something is wrong I just need to go get fixed, and what you’re doing, and teaching as part of your work is I can help facilitate the body to heal itself. I’m here as your coach, as the practitioner. As a healer, and you really do see yourself as a healer, but in the context of what you and I’ve talked a little bit about is that I can do acupuncture all day long, but that’s not – it’s not about the acupuncture. Acupuncture is a tool that I use, but I need to be more of a wellness coach almost, and really get down underneath the hood of how’s your life, how’s your stress, how’s your diet, what can I do to help you. We’ll use acupuncture to help facilitate that, but acupuncture is like everything else. It’s not going to fix it.

Exactly. Exactly.

Right?

Yeah. I think that’s also the challenge with my work is that people are used to the western medical model where they come in, and they’re going to get fixed, or they’re going to get something that makes them better, but I also have to remind myself that that doesn’t happen in the western world either, right? I think a big part about what acupuncture, and traditional Chinese medicine, and Chinese herbs do is it really goes back to you learning about yourself. Like giving you the quiet space, giving you tools, and techniques to go out there. A lot of times I see people they’re just on this crazy carousel of life, and they’re just going, and going, and going, and they realize that they’re not happy, and it’s really not working for them, but they don’t really know how to make it better, and the doctors don’t really have a solution, and so they start exploring other avenues.

A lot of times just the intake form alone because it’s usually about we’ll do a 20 or 30-minute new patient consultation in part of the overall treatment, and we go through every system in the body. So, I’m asking people a lot of personal questions that maybe their doctor hasn’t even asked them. So, you develop a really close – a rapport with your clients, and the one thing that I’ve noticed is that just by recognizing the changes that they’re making in their life, and congratulating them on it, and making it a big deal has a really big part of someone’s transformation. It gives them the tools to think, “Yeah, I am changing” and I didn’t really respond to that thing in the same way. Well, I went five days with a really great breakfast, and that’s great. To be their cheerleader is really a big part of how I see my work too.

Yeah, I think that’s – you talked about with the eastern Chinese medicine. It is looking at the body as a system, and it all needs to work together, and getting that moving versus just focusing on one thing, and thinking if you fix that then you’re okay, and it’s like no. It’s probably a domino effect. There’s a lot of things going on here, and let’s go through this discovery process together, and then help the body facilitate its own healing.

Exactly.

And the belief, right, that the body does heal itself if we give it the right tools, and environments, right?

I think that is absolutely true actually. Setting up the proper foundation, giving people new tools in their personal toolbox. I think an even bigger part of balance, or healing, or whatever word you like to do is empowerment. Instead of like what you were saying before about going to the western doctor, and be given the magic pill. Now, people are advocating for their own health, and they’re stepping into their own power about what works for them, and figuring out who’s going to be on their team. Like somebody might have an acupuncturist, and a massage therapist, and their western doctors, and I look at that as a team. Their tribe, that person’s tribe. Like all these people are working together to keep this person vibrant, and healthy, and just ready to go out there, and fulfill their purpose.

Absolutely. I think it is once but we have to produce a space to get to know ourselves again, and to feel, and what am I feeling, and sensing? Because our bodies talk to us, and they’ll tell us things, and so even with acupuncture, for example, I do lots of different treatments today, and different things as part of my self-care, and healthcare, and I’ll get to a place where I’m like, “I need acupuncture. I can just feel like the energy is not flowing” and I know that this is the tool, and technique to use. I’m not sure what magic happens but it breaks through things that nothing else produces that. So, I just know that acupuncture is this magic that helps my energy, stuck energy, flow again. I can’t necessarily describe it, or understand it, but I know that it works. But the point is that if I’m not recognizing, if we’re too busy to even take time to – what am I feeling or sensing, or trying to intuit what’s wrong, we won’t even know that maybe it’s time to go get a little adjustment here or there – whatever tool is most effective for that.

Exactly. I think that culturally there’s a little bit of disconnect from our bodies, and how we feel. We’re taught to overlook certain symptoms, or certain situations like blood pressure, or slowing down. It all comes with let’s just say aging. And when you look at other cultures who have maybe a little bit of different lifestyles. They don’t necessarily have the same lifestyle diseases that we do. I think a lot of that comes from just not really knowing – a person really not knowing themselves, and maybe just doing things that you just do because you just do it, and not exploring, or seeking out other avenues like you were saying, you know?

Yeah. Number one there’s the – we’ve adopted this belief that we go to the doctor when we’re sick. So, it’s just culturally not in our culture that we should take care of our – like it’s self-care health care, and that the goal is for us to be taking care of our self, and then we go to certain doctors when certain things break down. But culturally somehow there’s just belief that I don’t need to worry about anything, and then I go to a doctor when something is broken. When I’m sick, or something is not – something is clearly wrong. So, there’s that combined with our western lifestyle of not balancing the yin and the yang, correct?

Yeah.

So, it’s these two points that are causing us to feel stressed out, sick, tired, and start to feel, or notice the onset of certain illness, or diseases.

No, you’re exactly right. Yeah, I don’t think — I think we are conditioned for sick care versus wellness care. Not necessarily having the curiosity as what’s in the root. I think more people are awakening to that idea, but in general it’s more of a, “My knee hurts, I’m going to the knee doctor. My shoulder hurts, I’m going to go to the shoulder doctor. My stomach hurts, I’m going to the GI doctor.” It’s all very disconnected and not whole, and not cohesive. It’s not looking at the body as the whole beautiful amazing structure that it is, and all that it’s mind body spirit aspects to it. I think that’s where acupuncture really ties in because not only during the treatment you’re having the physical sensation of the needles, and the movement that might be happening like an itchiness, or a warmth, or a distention feel but you’re also having all relaxation chemicals. Dopamine, and serotonin are being released, and people just experience this deep calming. Like a lot of people say, “Oh, I just sunk right into the table” and I think that experience of feeling the treatment, the needles, and the treatment, and the movement along with just the deep relaxation is helpful towards people understanding, and making the connection to their whole body versus just little parts, if that makes any sense.

Yeah. So even the sensation of the needle poke attaches you to your body. It produces an awareness. Yeah. I haven’t thought about that, yeah. All right, well I think that’s a good Segway into —

Are you ready?

— some needle poking.

Okay.

I’d love for you to start with explain what the pulse is, and a little bit of the background because as you’ve described it over the time we’ve worked together is that the way you look at things, look at the body is different than traditional medicine, right?

It is, yeah. So, we’ll use the same terminology as western doctors. We’ll use words like liver, kidney, spleen. We use the same characteristics and functionality, but there’s nothing – we’re not diagnosing from a western physiological sense, right? In essence over the course of time they’ve determined that if you have the liver, the liver does this functionality, and it has a whole bunch of other jobs that it does even from an emotional aspect, right? So, not only am I looking at you from a physical standpoint, I’m also looking at you from an emotional standpoint, and how that’s playing into whatever symptom you might be presenting with. How we do that is like I said before it’s all about excess too much and too little, right? So, during our intake we would have had this big conversation about all your symptomologies. I would be keeping tabs on what symptoms, what and where, and so I kind of go “Oh I’m going to go and check that system a little bit more.” When I get you on the table like we are now, I would go to your pulse. So, we see – we use the pulses very differently than the western docs do. So, we see that there’s three positions on each wrist.

On your right wrist, there’s the lung, the digestive system, and then what we call the right kidney. Then on the other side on the left hand you have the heart, the liver, and the left kidney. My first impression is: is the pulse really strong, and pounding? That would tell me an overall constitutional excess, or if it’s very deficient down deep, I have to really press to find it. That tells me it’s a more constitutional deficiency. So, in general, my first impression is I either got to calm you down overall, or I get to strengthen you up overall.

Then next thing I would do is I would look at each position individually, and more specifically which one is hitting my finger first. And that’s usually the excess, the most excess system. Hopefully, it correlates to all your symptoms that we were talking about during your health intake, right? So, what I would do is I would look again to see which one is the strongest, and then check a couple different points to see if it calms down because ideally at the end of the treatment what I want to do is have everything equal in the middle. So, smooth, all three pulse positions in line in the middle level, and in a nice rhythm. So, that’s what we’re always correcting. I use the pulses a lot in my work. I feel like it’s a really good gauge as to what’s going on internally. So, that’s that. That’s the pulses.

What are you noticing?

I’m on your right hand, I’m noticing that your stomach position is a little bit stronger. Have you eaten recently?

I had a smoothie.

You had a smoothie? Okay. So –

Right before I came.

So, I’ll block that out. That’s digestion.

Okay.

I’d be curious your lung pulse is a little low. You did come from the desert, so there was a little climate change, probably a little bit drier. I would be curious to explore that a little bit more, but overall it’s really nice. You’re in the middle level. You’re nice and consistent.

Now on the left side. So, you’re overall very good. You’re a little bit low, but not crazy. Your kidney pulse is a little bit strong. I like to correlate that to adrenals in Chinese medicine, or in western medicine, which would make sense with your travels, and getting in late from the plane. Yeah, so I would probably work in there, and that consistently shows up for you that we have to work on that particular system.

Okay.

Okay. Any other questions before I get started?

No. Then what about looking under the tongue?

Ah, the tongue. Okay, so the tongue is another roadmap that tells me where the system is imbalanced. What we’re looking at first and foremost, kind of again the pulse, excess, deficiency. The tongue is really red, but that tells me usually that there’s a lot of heat in the body, and the heat could come from constraint. So, a lot of times when we’re really tense I liken it to a compost pile. So, when you have a compost pile everything on the outside looks really great, and relaxed, and nice, but there’s nice smoldering heat in the inside. That’s what happens to stress in our body. Once we contrast or contract in, the body is doing this little slow smoldering of heat, and that might show up as different symptoms, and how we classify it.

First and foremost is the tongue red? Is it pale? Is it swollen? Is it small? The sides correlate to what we call the liver gallbladder system. In Chinese medicine, I like to correlate that to the pair sympathetic nervous system, o0ur fight or flight stress response. So, a lot of times you might see a little bit of redness on the sides. That’s heat again in that particular system.

The tip of the tongue is the heart system. Usually, if that’s pretty red you might see a little bit of prickles on it, and that correlates more to anxiety. Somebody who might suffer a little bit from anxious, and anxiousness, and anxiety. Just behind that is the lung system. So, in Chinese medicine, you have all the normal lung things, coughs, asthmas, but it also correlates to grief as our emotional component. So, if that’s pretty obvious I might explore that with my client because there’s maybe some unresolved grief, or sadness that they might be carrying around, and try to work on clearing that a little bit.

The middle part is the digestive system. Alot of things that you might see in there are cracks that tells me the digestive system is pretty weak. You might see a white coat that tells me that — we have this concept in Chinese medicine called dampness. It’s basically the digestive system is not working as efficiently, and you have residual food in your system. So, gas or bloating and those sort of things. So, that’s the tongue.

That’s one thing that I do like about Chinese medicine is that it really is holistic in the sense that different organs, great, there’s the physiological functionality, but then it’s connected to the emotional — and really it’s mind, body, spirit emotion and looking at everything holistically that it could be emotional off center versus just a physiological one.

Exactly. Exactly. That to me is also the beauty of Chinese medicine is that you could have – like I said even with the lung. Somebody might have some chronic lung issues, but maybe have a background in grief. You might be treating the physical, the physical physical, and not really making any progress until you start exploring the psycho emotional aspects of it. The heart is more anxiety, the liver is anger, the lung is grief like I said, and then the kidney is fear. So, which ties in very interestingly with the adrenals. Even back then they had a very strong understanding of how the body worked, and how emotions could be stored in the body, and manifest as a physical condition.

That’s incredible.

Yeah, it really is.

Yeah.

Okay, are you ready?

Yeah.

Okay, so I think with you what we’re going to do is I always like to — I’ve been really exploring the idea of centering, and bringing the person back to themselves, so I like to do that with stomach points. So, we’re going to do a couple points on your tummy, and then we’re going to address that strong kidney pulls that you’re having and nourish a little bit of your yin. So, we’re going to keep it short and sweet, but we’re going to give you some good tools here. Okay. We’re going to do that. So, what I’m going to do first is we’re going to mark the points here and do a little bit down here. We’re going to do a couple points here.

We’re going to do one right up here. Okay. So, you know the drill. We’re just going to give you a little reminder. You might feel a little pinch, like a mosquito bite, and that is all normal. You might feel a distending or warmth. That’s that Chi moving that’s unblocking the stuckness. You might not feel anything at all, and that’s all good, okay? So, what you’re going to feel first. We’re just going to mark the point here. I’m doing a point called Ren 12. It’s a strong heart point. Just a good balancing centering point. Little guide to, and then a quick tap. We’ll do just a nice shallow insertion with you. We don’t really need to go very deep. You’re very sensitive. Little tap here. Okay. How are those doing?

Piece of cake.

Okay. Then I’ll just check in and see how we did with that. That really made a nice change here. Soften the middle position.  Come right here. Yeah, same here. Okay, good.

So, just those two little insertions have already balanced some things out?

Yeah, we’ve even – yes, yes. The kidney pulses have slowed down a little bit, and we brought some strength into some of the other spots. So, we’re going to do another point here. It’s called kidney 16. This has become one of my favorite set of points just for really bringing a person back. I don’t do a lot of work with chakras, but the idea of the solar plexus and some of the mind, body, brain concept is to help with balancing that. Okay, we’re going to do the spleen 16. It’s down here on your ankle. This is a very nice yin balancing point. So, kind of going back to that burning the candle at both ends concept, really nourishing and also helpful with sleep to a point of balancing the yin. Okay. Then last but not least, we’re going to do a point up here in your – what we call the anterior hairline. So, it taps right into calming the brain a bit. Tap here, we call that D24. And there we have it.

I have my stomach on camera. That’s great.

You look great. Yeah. And nice, everything is even. We filled up the lung position a little bit, and soften the middle, and calmed that kidney pulse down nicely. Let’s check the left hand here, and see how we did. Yeah. We’re good. Yeah, it’s nice. That’s balancing itself out a little bit. How do you feel? Are you okay?

Yeah, I feel great.

Okay.

So, normally we would – I would lay here, and I would cook for a while. Do you want to explain that?

Yeah, we let you rest for 20 to 25 minutes, and the idea with that – the reasoning behind that is so there’s a set of 12 channels in the body. So, there’s the lung, large intestine, stomach, spleen on so on and so on. There’s 12 total, and they’ve discovered. They call it a particular type of cycle that the Chi goes through the body in that cycle within 20 minutes. So, the idea is you want somebody to rest in that space to give the full benefit of the Chi movement, and touching base on all the systems. So, 20 to 25 minutes is the average for that.

For me I find it really interesting that I’m not a napper. I’m awake when I’m awake. I’m asleep when I’m asleep, but there’s something, and I’m not sure what happens. I call it acculine, but I lay here for about five minutes each time. I think there’s no way I’m going to fall asleep, or nap, or whatever, and sure enough. I’d say 95% of the time I go to some middle land. I don’t know if I’m going. My brain waves are going into alpha theta or something, but It’s a really great place, and I know something is working because I can’t get there any other way.

Yeah, and it’s –

Through meditation, and all these other practices that I have. There’s something about whatever is happening that causes my nervous system to completely relax, or something that enables me to just go into a different state.

Yeah. I’m not sure I have the answer to that to be honest with you. I tell my clients a lot of times especially the new ones where they’re not really sure what to expect. Like you know some people fall asleep, that same people go to this place where you’re not really asleep but you’re not really awake. Kind of like you said, a deep meditative place, not intentionally. I just think it’s the body’s way of going into a deep set of relaxation. Finally being able to relax and let go and just be. Like I said earlier about the dopamine, and the serotonin. Those are very restorative brain chemicals that we’re releasing. So, it allows people to just get a good rest.

Get a good release of that. The body really settles down, and just –

Very calming.

Yeah, relishes in that feeling. Right, those neurons. Yay. And then talk about symptomatology a little bit. So, different people come in, obviously different people, but they come in for different – they have different symptoms going on. So, how are you in diagnosing these? You do a really nice conversation, and really trying to listen to lifestyle of what are the symptoms, and I know when I was having my sleep issues you have so many questions. Almost therapy like therapy, oh my goodness.

I get that a lot.

Yeah. My acu therapist, but so how do you work? Just describe the process a little bit.

Well, when somebody comes in for the first time they’ll download I think it’s like a five-page questionnaire, like I said a little bit earlier about we literally go through every health system in your body. I like to start from head, and I go down to the toe. We talk about headaches and on down all the functions of your body. So, really what I’m exploring is really looking at – it’s like a talley. Like okay, so you have this, and you get headaches, and maybe have a little bit of insomnia, and you have a little bit of tummy stuff, and so as you’re talking about it I’m thinking okay that system can correlate to this particular channel, or pathway, or organ system really. And then which everyone has the most that’s where we start. So, does that make sense? Okay.

Yeah, so you’re – but your listening, and trying to think okay these are the outward symptoms that this person is experiencing, and really trying to start to maybe unravel what might the source be through different questions, and –

Exactly.

You’re in your head thinking that for people talking you’re looking at their form. Ask these questions, learning what the sensations, or symptoms that they’re describing.

Exactly, and one of the things – the primary thing that we do is we have this concept called the root and the branch. The root is what is happening constitutionally to this person that is having them have all these symptoms. A lot of times they seem really disconnected. How can a headache, and a stomach ache manifest, and how do we treat that, but a lot of time there’s overlap in just how we just look at the organ systems, and how they function, and a couple of the other things that we do in terms of diagnosis.  So, I’m always, always, always trying to find the root. Those are the questions like digging deeper, pulling back the layers of the onion. Like why is this happening? But then at the same time we treat what’s called the branch, which are the symptoms. So, one I want you to feel better. So, I have to always treat the symptoms so that you’ll see progress, and you’ll feel better as you go out on your daily life, but ultimately, and what I think the beauty of in acupuncture is you’re really searching and treating for that root. And that’s a lot of the process in the work. It’s not – you come in –

It is a process.

It is a process. It’s not like you come in for one session, and you’re automatically fixed. It’s the peeling back of the onion layers like I was saying, and also understanding why that’s happening, and creating a foundation of treatment. Usually I like to start with four to six treatments once a week. Have the body get used to me, have the body get used to acupuncture. Have the person get used to the process. Have the person start being curious about their health. Then we can change the treatment as we go, but it’s all about creating a foundation, and determining the root to figure out how that happens.

And as a practitioner, let’s see a healer, practitioner, in let’s see the more eastern. It’s philosophical, is it more like I’m a – what would be the right word? I’m here to assist the body. So, you’re not coming in like I’m going to heal you, or fix you, or I’m God, and can do this for you. It’s like no, I’m going to work with this, and help facilitate you, and your body’s healing. And give you maybe the tools that can help facilitate that.

Exactly. Exactly. I think at the beginning of the journey you’re taught from school that that’s what you’re doing. You’re fixing someone. I soon realize that I’m not fixing anybody. I am facilitating by moving, by talking, by asking questions, by encouraging, and just creating that whole experience for the person. But no, the acupuncture I’ve since observed and come to understand is that it’s just tapping inside what the person has inside of them really.

And so you really – you help all sorts of issues and symptoms, but I know one of your passions is infertility. Do you want to talk about that at all?

Well, yeah. Infertility is really just another sign of imbalance, and so what we would do there is work on a three-month program. We look a lot at the menstrual cycle and getting that balance. There’s a whole bunch of different symptoms that culturally we accept as normal like cramps, or PMS, or clots, or those sort of things, or shorten cycles, or longer cycles that really is a sign of imbalance. So, we use that as a marker of health and progress. Also too, a lot of fertility work is not only getting the body in the best possible shape but getting the person in the best possible way to welcome a new person into their space, right? If we’re go, go, go, busy, busy, busy it’s really hard to ask the body to go into reproductive mode because fight or flight the body is not going to reproduce. It’s just going to try to survive. So, a big part of the work is calming, doing stress management. Getting the body back in balance, regulating the cycle, teaching women about their cycle, which is a very big – a big part of my work is teaching women about their cycle. What it means when one’s ovulate, when is the time of your cycle that you’re most fertile, and that sort of thing. So, another big part of my work is educating. Educating people on health, and their body, and that sort of thing.

Yeah, our mutual friend Kristin Cashmore, I interviewed her for a podcast, and that was such a big aha too is we don’t even think about our cycle, or that we normalize some of these symptoms that we think, “Oh, they’re just cramps, they’re normal. PMS, have we just all had these.” Not necessarily.

No, not necessarily. Like another sign of stagnation. Like pain is a stagnation, so if something is not moving the Chi is blocked in that area, and there could be a variety of reasons why, and so that’s part of my job is to figure out the root again why is that happening? Why are there clots? Why is there pain? And that could correlate to any other symptom. Like why is somebody waking up consistently at three o’clock in the morning? What part of their body isn’t working efficiently? Or why do they constantly get stomach aches or acid reflux and all that sort of stuff.

Anything else that you want to share when it comes to acupuncture, and the wisdom, and your overall work? I know that your passion really is – I believe it to be, and why I really appreciate this about you is that you really – your work is to help people feel better, to help them heal themselves, to assist in just better living. I know we’ve talked a lot about this, but we’ve got to learn to take better care of ourselves. This self-care piece versus disease care, or sick care to really bring it back to us, and how we take care of ourselves.

Yes, exactly. You’re absolutely right. That is the part of my work that I love the most is seeing someone really transform into their best possible self. Having a client come in, and working with them, and you have all these openings, and changes in their life that you’re not even expecting. I had a client who was really struggling here in Austin, and trying to find a life partner, and wasn’t really crazy about work, and was maybe thinking about changing careers, and then one day she’s like, “I’m going to Colorado.” Found the man of her dreams, got this amazing job, transitioned her whole entire career, and that’s like we weren’t even working on that. That was just working on the person, and empowering them, and giving them a safe place to be, and explore. Really made a difference that she was able to go out and make all these other changes. Nothing makes me happier than to see somebody blossom in that way. To be really, really happy in their life.

And to learn to honor ourselves. To love and honor ourselves. To love ourselves is a self-care piece. It’s everything that’s through our actions. The level of care. If we say we love someone it shows up we can say the words, but it really shows up the actions. The other person feels love through the actions, and not through the words.

Exactly.

The words are nice, but the actions are actually demonstrated. See when it comes to loving ourselves is that how we know we love ourselves is how we take care of ourselves.

Exactly.

It’s so important to take care, and to produce that space.

I think that somewhere along the line that we were told that it’s not acceptable to take care of ourselves, that we’re being very selfish if we take time out to do whatever it is that’s going to make us feel good to maybe explore areas that we want to grow a little bit more in our life, and I think that’s another thing that I would love to see change, or love to see people embrace that it’s not selfish to take care of yourself. It’s not selfish to go for care or for monthly appointments or whatever case may be to really make you happier in your life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Then so, you haven’t always been in acupuncturist. Tell us the story of what – how did you get here? You’re such an exceptional practitioner, and such a –

Oh, thank you.

And such a – you have such a gift, and you put your heart into this, and you make such a difference. So, it’s like a calling of yours, but how did you arrive here? You’re not Chinese.

I’m not Chinese. Well, I spent about 14 years working in the advertising agency world. I did something called pro production. Moved all around for that. Lived in the bay area San Francisco for six years working in a couple of big named agencies. I was trying to decide what’s next. I knew I didn’t want to run the big department, which was probably the next thing on my career path. About that time I had a very dear friend who was trying to get pregnant. This was 14 years ago, so it’s a little bit before where we are now with the integration of east and west in general, but more specifically in fertility health. She was working with reproductive endocrinologist or an RE who was managing her care from a western perspective to get her prep for IVF, but he said, “Okay, here’s my deal. You’re going to work with me, but you’re going to this therapist, and you’re going to check in with her, and you’re going to go to this acupuncturist, and you’re going to do everything that she says.”

First I thought it was quite brilliant that he had incorporated this whole mind, body, spirit aspect into his work as a western practitioner, but then my friend would go to get acupuncture, and I was just amazed by her transformation. It’s a very stressful time for women, you’re getting all these hormones, and you have all these doctor’s appointments, and you have to miss work, and it’s in the bay area so nothing is easy. She just looked amazing. She had peacefulness about her. Her skin totally changed. She was completely calm, and I was like what is going on with you? And she would come back from all her treatments, and tell me all about it, and she would come in smelling like moxa, and I’m like what’s that? So, I made an appointment to go to the practitioner for some health issues that I had, and I just remember laying on the table going I don’t know what this is, but I want to do it. And fast forward, moved back to Austin. I lived here for a bit before I went to San Francisco, went to school, got my master’s degree, been on this journey for 15 years I guess now. So –

Has it been that long?

Yeah, so it’s been great. Yeah.

And so what are some of the – do you have any stories to share as far as some of the biggest successes, or breakthroughs, or –

Oh wow.

Based it – keep you doing what you’re doing.

Well, I think on the daily basis just seeing people come in a little bit happier, a little bit testing the waters, and doing their own personal growth. I’ve had clients who have gotten pregnant, which is really wonderful both just naturally and combination with IVF. I think one of my favorite stories, I don’t know if it really fits the bill but I had a client come in, she was having a lot of digestive issues, she had been to every gastroenterologist person in Austin, they basically kept telling her well it’ll go away when you lose weight. I’m looking at her and I’m thinking, “Hmm, this feels like it’s a gallbladder issue” and so we put her on some gallbladder herbs. Fr the first time in I don’t even know, four or five years she was able to eat without pain.

And so that was pretty gratifying to be able to be the one that unearth the core of what was bothering her. Another part of my work is I do sports acupuncture, which is a different modality like working specifically with muscles. I have a couple of elite level athletes who have been able to go and participate in competition, and do better in competition after the work with acupuncturist. So, that’s been really gratifying. Yeah. I’ve had a couple people that I refer back to their docs, and they found some things, and that’s been really nice but in general, it’s just the everyday – you wait for the big rewards, but within I think it’s the same incremental steps that really create change.

Yeah. Like you said earlier, what are habits and practices, and rituals? I really like the word rituals. Where do I incorporate these rituals into our life, and so habits and practices? Those are good words. We need certain habits, and we were all a byproduct of our habits basically. We are our habits. Some good, some that can maybe be improved. Practice is a more deliberate word I think for habit, and more intentional chosen habit versus it’s a design practice versus just an unconscious habit. So, that’s great, but I’ve really moved deep in there’s the next layer. So, maybe moving from habit mostly that like I said unconscious word not necessarily where, but we’re just in those routines. Then moving into more practices like I said more intentional, but there’s this third place that I know moved to is the word ritual, and the ritual distinction for ritual and for practice meaning that it’s sacred, there’s a sacredness to it. So, all these rituals that have been around in traditions are really an honoring of something or celebration of something, but they’re sacred for reasons.

It’s a sacred ritual, or tradition. It’s asking the question what are rituals that we hold sacred or what rituals do we want to create for ourselves that are sacred, and so I love something like this is that it’s great. Come in like you said. Some people come in. They have some pretty serious symptoms or whatever. Something that they really want help with trying to resolve so they can feel better like for me can we help my sleep thing. Beyond that though it’s like where do we incorporate things like this like if it’s acupuncture, whatever it may be. As these rituals in our life that we honor and hold sacred to keep facilitating wellness, well being, rejuvenation, recharging, reconnecting. All the re words as I call them, and looking at, “Okay, come on in. I’m just going to honor myself, and go. I know acupuncture does some magic, but if nothing else is at space I can spend time with Ann. A little bit of girl times. She disappears, and I can just be with myself for 25 minutes where the world doesn’t even know where I am.” Just for no other reason it just maybe incorporates the practice for that alone time.

Yeah, definitely, I agree 100%, and I think it’s even more important now than ever where we have so many rules that we play in our life. Husband, wife, brother, sister, you’re working, you’re doing this. I think that a lot of times we’re not afforded the opportunity to just step back and assess like are we on the right path? Is this what I want to do? I’m just not even talking career wise, but sometimes you get to a point where we’re doing things, and we’re doing things the same way, but not really realizing that there could be another opportunity. I think coming into acupuncture or a lot of what you were just saying with the rituals, and the recharging, and it gives us an opportunity to step back, and just do some — be curious. It’s not even like, “Oh, I’ve got to like – it’s New Year’s resolution time, and I want to make all these changes. It’s just like a curiosity. It’s like how am I doing? Like how am I feeling? How am I being out in the world? Like are you in alignment with that, and nine times out of ten we’re not because we’re not really – we don’t have a culture that has these rituals, and customs that ground us back to ourselves, or you know? Family, whatever, however that is defined for you or something like that. So, I think the importance of taking quiet time, and coming in for treatment is an important tool in that area.

Yeah. There’s something and what I realized even in Sedona, and I do a pretty good job. I get a weekly message. I come in for my acupuncture adjustments, and sometimes chiropractic adjustments. So, I have my different therapies if you will, but even though when I was in Sedona, one thing that I really connected with was sometimes since we all – we do work so hard. Even if we’re a mom, or if we’re a working mom or a dad, then we’re out doing all things that we have to do just in this crazy life that we lead. That there’s something also to sometimes feeling taken care of. So, what I felt in Sedona was this because there’s so much of that over so many days, and so many treatments, and therapies that I really felt this place of, “Oh my gosh, we’re all such caretakers through our work, through our businesses, through being a mom, or a dad, or a friend, or a whatever it is.” We’re caretaking all the time and we’re not really taking the time to be taken care of, or even putting ourselves in a vulnerable position sometimes to be taken care of. I think that’s another part of the balance that yeah. We need to take care, and be responsible, and be these things, but it’s okay to be taken care of too.

Exactly.

And then it’s like, “Oh, that’s part of the recharge is to let somebody else take care of me for a change so my body can feel safe, my nervous system can balance.” It knows that it can just totally relax because it’s been taken care of, and there’s no threats, and I can feel it. I can feel like, “Oh, this is important.”

Yeah. No, I agree with you 100%. It could be considered a woo woo term, the idea of holding space for someone. I think that’s also a large part of the treatment is allowing somebody to come in, and to give them the space, and hold this space for them to explore whatever they need to explore in order to process their own healing. One of the things I’m constantly in awe of is the courage, and strength of my clients. The courage to come in and sit with a stranger, and tell them all the personal things that you have to tell me in order for me to do my work to help you. It’s very gratifying, and it’s very humbling to do that. I’m just always honored by my client’s courage to be able to do that. It gets me a little choked up.

Yeah, not bad. Back at you. I think that’s what separates you, and a few others like you that really – the distinction is a lot of people do different treatments, or therapies, or whatever, and it pays the bills, and they could be good at it, and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a service that’s needed in those types of providers, but there’s this different maybe level if that’s the right word that category that put you in is that you really do versus just hey, another person in and another person out. You take so much love, and care, and put that love and care into your patient, into the person that’s in on the table. And you give your special healing juice, and knowledge, and care, and insert that into the needle with the needle. I think that’s what’s so important is when there are certain practitioners in the world. That their gift is that. They’re like, “Let me take care of you.” Now, it’s your job that you need to be taken care of sometimes too. So, that –

Yeah. Assume that all the kids don’t have issues.

Exactly, exactly.

Yeah, totally.

As someone – we all do that. We all give so much, and those that actually do put our heart, and soul, and gift into everything we do and do it hoping to make the world, and people — just make the world a better place, and it’s even more important that we take care of ourselves because we give so much energy out that is so important to replenish that, but regardless I’m making the point, but I want to just circle it back to you is that’s what makes you so special is that you put your love, and care, and wanting that true desire that people will lead healthier, happier, or better with every single person that comes in.

Wow, thank you. I’m very flattered, and that means a great deal. I think it’s interesting that you brought up love. I think that just self-love once we start to love ourselves, and then that expands into our community especially during these very trying times that we’re living in right now is just to allow people to feel that, and to know that really – it’s all about love, you know?

Yeah.

So.

Receiving love, giving love, and again it’s that cycle. It’s that yin and yang. It’s the back and forth. The balancing out, and the flow.

Exactly, it’s all about the flow.

Yeah.

Back to that river.

Back to that river, awesome.

Yeah.

All right. The way I like to end all podcasts even if I’m laying on a table is do a little myth busting. So, with each episode I’ve ended with asking the question really like what myth is out there that you bump into all the time either through your work, or just life in general where you just think, “Oh my gosh, it’s not true, or I would just like to bust that one” because you can see maybe the damage is somewhere down the line that that belief where it reaps havoc somewhere.

Yeah, I think it’s – it goes back to some things that we were talking about earlier. It’s the whole idea of how our healthcare system is setup right now. It’s more of a sick care system than a wellness care system. I don’t think it’s really helping people to get to the root of the problem so that they can go on, and be their best possible self, and to try to educate somebody on the importance of our whole conversation has been about self-care when they’re used to going to the doctor, and getting a man, or a pill, or going in for a procedure, and handing that over to someone else. I think that whole concept the way our healthcare system is basically set up is a myth. It’s not really getting anyone well. It’s just fixing what’s sick or broken temporarily until something else pops up, and then we’re in this circle of chasing the sick part, and not really looking to get us feeling 100% in all our avenues of life.

And so the myth bust then is to really come back to us?

I think so. Kind of more empowerment, more that there’s a role for the doctors, but they’re not your only – they’re not your only – and I mean I don’t say this in being disrespectful to anybody because obviously surgery, and medication are life-saving devices, but I’m just thinking when somebody comes in, and they want to feel better, but they’re wanting the same experience as when you go into a doctor’s office, and it doesn’t necessarily work that way, and I don’t think that the model that we’re in where you just go for this part and that part is really helping the whole body. I feel like that’s really the missing piece for us culturally is that we’ve become not only disconnected from ourselves, but also we don’t really think about how the shoulders are affecting the low back pain, or the stomach might be affecting the headache because we’re going to all these different places for an answer when a lot of time the answer is with us.

Perfect, all right well thank you. This has been a lot of fun.

Thank you, this has been great.

I hope it works for everybody listening. That it made sense, and for everybody on camera. I think Ann will take the needles out here in a second, but we’ll go ahead and wrap up, and I guess we’re getting a view of my stomach. So.

It’s a cute tummy. Let’s do one little check in here. Oh, with all the talking you’re all nice and even. Good.

Oh, perfect.

All right.

All right, well I guess that’s a wrap.

I hope you enjoyed my interview and treatment with Ann. If you’d like to learn more about Ann, her philosophy, or her practice. All of those links are available for you at WealthyWellthy.life/podcast. One more thing. My team actually captured this entire video and posted it to my YouTube channel. So, if you’d like to see me getting poked with needles just go to YouTube, and simply type in my name Krisstina Wise.

Next, up, I stay on the Health Wealth conversation and interview Dr. Jack Wolfson. He’s a brilliant doctor and author of the book the Paleo Cardiologist. He is founder of the Drs. Wolfson, a company specializing in healthy multivitamins, and supplements. If you’re looking to add more tools to your health toolbox. You won’t want to miss this one. Here’s to a WealthyWellthy life. I’ll see you next time.