In today’s episode, Krisstina chats with Erin Pheil. Erin breaks down what it is to have “junk value”. The definition of this is described as defining a big goal but not really knowing or understanding the ‘why’ behind it.
“We do things and act because we want to feel a certain way. We want to feel safe, we want to feel at peace…but sometimes when people are disconnected from their feelings… [there you will] find ‘junk values’”. She gets even deeper into sharing how many entrepreneurs are actually driven by fear. Fear of not being enough. Fear of being poor. Fear of any kind!
Discussing the Top Road Blocks: 33-39 min
- Procrastination (and the knowledge of it)
- Not feeling deserving of money and wealth/success
- Struggling with succeeding/self-sabotage/feeling bad for doing better than others
Hello and welcome back. In this episode I’m interviewing Aaron feel Aaron is the owner of mind fix mind fix helps entrepreneurs get out of their own way by rapidly and permanently eliminating their biggest mental roadblocks. roadblocks, like hidden insecurities, fears, self doubt that pesky imposter syndrome and anxiety. I love this conversation, Aaron I share so much in common past and present. And we basically were finishing each other sentences. Aaron taught me a new distinction called junk values, valuing something like a big goal, but not knowing the why behind it. She talks about the entrepreneurial pattern of living in the rat race of achievement without ever considering if the desired outcomes are what we really care about. We also talk about becoming wealthier, through less, not more, and the most common root problems creating friction and preventing people from building wealth. If you feel stuck in any category of life you’ll wish to listen in, please enjoy my conversation with Erin Pheil. Erin, welcome to the wealthy, wealthy podcast.
Hello, thank you for having me.
Well, it’s so good to meet you on taan summit. And I just loved what you had to say. And you’re just energy and spirit and smile. And I thought I have got to interview her. So just for everybody listening in just share a little bit who is Aaron and kind of what tell us a little life story a little about you that brought you to the work that you do today.
Yeah, it’s actually a an unconventional path that I could not have mapped out even if I had tried for as much of a planner as I am. I actually, I went to undergrad and I got a degree in psychology, took some time off and ended up kind of changing course. And I got a master’s in digital media and it was all around the.com boom. And so I right around that time. Instead of going in though, into the world of psychology, which I had thought I was going to do, I ended up starting a web agency. And I grew that for about 1516 years, we became a nationally ranked consulting web agency, and everything was going really, really well. And yet in the last four or five years, as I ran the business, there was this feeling that I was supposed to be doing something else I was getting kind of burned out, though the web industry was becoming commoditized. And I just felt like there’s there’s something more this is not what I meant to be doing the rest of my life and that that sense became stronger and stronger. And yet, the more I tried to force figuring out what I was going to do, the more frustrated I became, because I was like, I’m gonna go to a course or a class and figure out what’s my purpose and read this book about how to find your passion, I kept trying to force like, what’s next. And I just, I couldn’t figure it out. So what ended up happening, and how I ended up at, you know, being founding mind fix is there was one day I was I was training for a mountain bike stage race, I stepped off my bike and there was this little odd twinge in my ankle like this little electric book. And I thought nothing of it. But within a week, that twinge turned into pain. And within a month that pain spread across my body. So I started to see like PTs and therapists, massage massage therapists, and they were all kind of shrugging their shoulders. And so then they sent me to some, you know, doctors, and then suddenly I was seeing orthopedic surgeons. And then it was this cascade of nobody knowing what was going on with this pain that kept spreading. So I went from being this healthy founder of a web agency who was, you know, mountain biking all the time to this, you know, over the course of the next three, four months, a really deeply sad, human who was in a lot of pain, and none of the doctors knew what was going on. It culminated with me being in sitting in the office of a brain surgeon, like it just kept going and going, and it kept getting referred, and you know, bad, more MRIs and we’re going to look at your spine and x rays. And we’re going to do nerve conduction studies. And we’ve got to go see this brain surgeon. So I went from like, suddenly, like, What is wrong with me, and nobody could figure anything out. And so it was, I just became rather hopeless and dejected. I was in pain, nobody could help me. And it was so frustrating. So my mental health just plummeted. I became extremely anxious, extremely depressed. Every day was like Groundhog’s Day of going and sitting in doctor’s offices and doing treatments and nothing was working. And so as I became more and more, just hopeless, it got to the point, you know, fast forward like a year, year and a half later, and I’m still repeating everything every day. I was getting suicidal because I’m like, this is this life is not worth living. There’s just there’s nothing and I can’t keep repeating this for the rest of my life. So I started to see some different coaches or spiritual people and therapists to try and help me with my mental state, which was deteriorating, just along with my physical state. And just like with my body, like nobody could seem to share anything with me, that was helpful.
And everything, there was this one day, though, that changed everything that I kind of looked back on. And it was like the day like I took started, my path went in a different direction. And the woman that I was sitting on a couch across from she was this kind of spiritual woman, and she said, You know, you’re so miserable, and you are so stuck. Because of how you see the world because of your mental lens. It is so dirty, like all of the programming and the beliefs in the rules that are running your life that are so faulty, that it doesn’t matter what you do, you can’t get unstuck. And she’s like, you know, you believe your value and your worth as a human is dependent on how successful you are you believe that if you stop working, that makes you a lazy person, you believe that no matter what you do, or what you achieve, you’re never quite good enough. She’s like, you can’t, you can’t heal, you can’t be happy. No, you know what, with what’s going on, if those if that’s what’s running your life, and the way that she presented that, to me was so fascinating. And I said, You know, I think you’re onto something. But how do I intellectually understand that I consciously get that, but down here, like those things are so deeply embedded? How do we change this? Because it’s changed up here? I’ve read all the books, I’ve gone to therapy, how do we change here? You know, like, in in the word store deep? And she didn’t have an answer. She had the right direction. But she didn’t have that answer. She I think she said, like, I needed to come and see her more. And we’d explore that over the next year or two. And I was like, No, no, no, no, like, I’m an entrepreneur, I need a need. I need this fast. Like, I can’t keep doing this for years. So that was the day I walked out of her office, and I stood on her little concrete porch. And I said, I’m going to figure this out, there has to be a way where I can change, like what I fundamentally believe to be true, and the thoughts and all the patterns that are kind of running my life, and not just on the surface level. So I set off on my own exploration in my own journey and traveled across the country. And I trained and I became my own science experiment, and tried these different modalities. And a lot of them didn’t work. But what I ended up coming across was what I now see as the kind of magic formula in a way or like this, this method that allowed me to actually change at a deep level, which is something I had never been able to do before. So as I changed and my pain started deep to decrease. I had friends who were like, what, what are you doing, and I started to work with them and some of my agency clients who I was closer to actually Hey, can I can I can I get some help I actually have these problems. And it just it snowballed from there. And suddenly I had a line out the door. And it was so fulfilling. And people’s lives were changed so quickly. So drastically, people were getting over roadblocks and problems that they had been going to therapy for like me their entire life in a matter of weeks or a couple months. And it was the most fulfilling thing that I’d ever been able to do is this to have people come back and say I owe you my life or, you know, I’ve been working on this forever. And that’s how that’s how mind fix was, was was born, I realized this, this is what I meant to be doing. I am passionate about it. I love it. It’s it’s revolutionary. And this is what I get to devote the rest of my life to. So today I run the mind fix group. And we specialize in helping entrepreneurs and leaders and high achievers identify and then eliminate the biggest mental and internal roadblocks and barriers that are keeping them stuck or preventing them from being able to experience the success and happiness that they know they’re capable of but just feels a little bit out of their reach. And that’s how I ended up where I am today.
Wow you know maybe it’s funny just had different energies work and you know, out of I don’t even know how many people were on that summit, but I just even you and I didn’t talk I mean you talked obviously and I just resonated with you for some reason and it’s wild how aligned are similar stories are because same thing I was like rocking it right and just like leading my industry, I was unstoppable. And I had a moment I had a similar type of twinge happened I kid you not in my like in my brain. And I felt it and then I was out for the count. I was on the biggest stages in the country. And then within three days I couldn’t get out of bed and it was same thing. It was a physical thing, but then I just got destroyed mentally it’s just dark for so long. And I was Talk in darkness, and I couldn’t get out and I went to 10,000 doctors and nobody could tell me what was wrong, and then it got more depressing. And I never became suicidal per se. But I reached a point where I thought I can see why people commit suicide because you can’t stay here and, and want to live, you know, it’s just too You can’t have a happy thought to save your life. And you’re so scared and anxiety than just takes over because that fear is running the show. And same thing I just realized, it was a combination of the physical, it sounds like yours was too but it was all the same mental traps is the same mental bullshit, I same thing, everything my whole life and dependency was built on how successful I was. But I was never good enough and just never satisfied. And, you know, so I just was more and more and more Push, push, push until finally just my entire body and system completely broke. It’s just a game over Dude, I can’t keep doing this. And I was clueless as to why you know, so just such a similar story. It’s crazy.
I got chills, as you just said that to me. And Aaron. I mean, same thing in the sense that I walked away from my old industry like you and I didn’t know what I was gonna do next. But that journey took me into what I do today. Because I didn’t know it’s not like you go find your purpose is the same thing. It’s like this is now I’m, I know, I was put on this planet to do exactly this work. And it sounds like you’re the same, like, yes, you cannot. Yes, this is exactly why my whole life was meant to be in my whole life journey was for this moment and to do this work.
Yes. Yes, I it was it was interesting. I had a meeting with my financial one of my financial mentors and advisors the other day, and the question came up and is like, Okay, so what’s your target, you know, retirement age, when are you going to retire? And I was like, I don’t, I don’t, I won’t. Like I want I want I get to do this for the rest of my life. Like, I can’t imagine. This is what I’m here to do. And it is so fulfilling. I don’t ever want to have to retire from this.
I love it. Oh, my gosh, well, thank you so much for sharing that story. And, and just to go into just for listeners, if anybody’s in the place that you and I’ve been because it’s such a scary, ugly place, and you don’t know how to get out. And that’s what makes it worse. I don’t know, did you feel like you may never escape that. And that’s what’s so scary like thinking oh, my God, because then you’re comparing yourself to the old successful self to this, like, what if I’m never successful again? What if people don’t like me? What if I’m, what if I’m Game Over, you know, not even just death itself, but just success in business and dealing with that and coming to this place? Like who am I am I am I not if I’m not successful. So share a little bit about if you don’t mind sharing, like, share some moments during the darkest period, because we’re some I, I like to dig in there a little bit of so if people are resonating with that, one, they know they’re not alone. And that other people that have experienced it, and this is what it feels like combined with, you can break out of it. Like you’re an example of that. I’m an example. And you have methodologies for helping people do that type of work, because it’s not obvious.
No, no, no, I’m okay. So if I can clear because I have so much from that entire period and afterwards that I can share what what, which part of it? Did you want me
to miss? Like some of the dark periods? Like what were you feeling totally hurt the physical pain? And then kind of the mental story or narrative or loops that
Unknown Speaker [13:31]
you were in? Like,
what that what? Yes,
why? Yes. Oh, I mean, I remember a day when I was, it was interesting, because I was still running the business. And I think I was just like this high functioning, depressed person. So people didn’t know I lay in bed. And then I’d look at the clock, I’d, you know, put on a nice outfit. And I’d go and I’d have a meeting, you know, with with a, with a client for some huge project. And then I finish and I just go back to bed. And I just lay in bed and there. There was one day I remember a friend was driving through town. I hadn’t seen her for four years. And she was knocking at the door and texting me going. I’m at the front door. And I was just like, I’m sorry, I just there was so it got to the point where it was like, it doesn’t matter anymore. It doesn’t matter what I do. I’m not going to get better. I think what was most disheartening was just going to these doctors and the VA. There was one, there were several who were like, this is on your head, you’re just making this up or like, and they’d say something like that. And it was so cruel because it was like, you need to go maybe you just don’t like to bike. Maybe you just don’t like the bike. And they’d say they wouldn’t know but they’d say these things as if it’s psychosomatic, you’re just creating this for yourself. You need to go figure this out. There’s nothing wrong with you. And so when doctors or friends would say, this is all in your mind or you’re choosing this or you must be getting some Some benefit out of it otherwise you wouldn’t choose to stay in the state that it was like it doubled the pain. Because then I’m laying here going, I’m choosing this, or I’m creating this for myself, why would I do this? What kind of awful human would create this for themselves, and then walk me out, throw away the key. So a lot of times there was this, like meta guilt or confusion that was layered on top of the depression as if I was creating this somehow, for myself, then I would beat myself up for that. And that made it even worse. But I mean, as the weeks went by, and then the months went by, and then we passed, like the year, the two year mark, I was like, I don’t see a way out, every single doctor, I go to her specialist to say, I’m the one. And then you know, eight weeks later, they’d kind of shrug and go, I don’t know, I don’t know what to tell you, you’re unlike everybody else. So then the story becomes, you’re an anomaly, you’re different than everybody else, there’s something off with you, like you’re a broken one, we can help everybody else. But you’re, you’re off. And we can’t figure it out. And so it’s interesting, because then I would start showing up to doctors in the back of my head, I was already thinking it’s probably not going to work. And ironically, that thought that that that thought is what creates a lot of the self sabotage. And then our our mind is constantly looking for evidence that it’s not going to work. And we actually increase the likelihood that it’s not going to work, once we bring a part of us has that conviction. And so I think a lot of the the dark moments just came back to, I don’t, I really don’t see this changing, and I lost the belief that I could get better. And at the external, you know, don’t give up just started falling. Like, it’s just, it was just this, I’m trying to, like the feeling the heaviness I can’t can convey it, you know, through words, sometimes it was just the heaviest, heaviest feeling like in my body in my chest. And sometimes it felt like it was hard to breathe, and we just seemed like there was gonna be nothing that could help.
And what was the moment then where you felt a shift, and I mean, I have, I will never forget the moment like my the way I would describe it was, I mean, just complete and utter darkness, like, there was no light in the sense that I couldn’t have a positive thought to save my life, I couldn’t resonate with success, or who I was, I mean, it was just emptiness. And darkness is the only way to describe it. The same thing for days, on days, on days, on months, on months, on months, and then it just invite my mantra was, if I can just get through today, maybe tomorrow will be better, but then tomorrow wouldn’t be better, the same or worse. And, you know, that went on forever. Just man, if I can just make it through today, maybe tomorrow will be better. And that went on for so long. And then with my own work, and you know, I have my own journey. And same thing and became an Earth. You know, for me, and I think you alluded to this is that I kept looking for the doctors or somebody who saved me to fix me, like you said, the doctor, doctor doctor was trying to find the next person to fix me, and then they couldn’t fix me. Same thing. They’re like, something’s wrong with you. It’s in your head, we can’t figure it out. And then I’m more depressed. And, you know, just jumping by just the whole thing was like, there’s somebody out there, it’s got to fix me. And then when I finally had the moment, nobody can fix me, I’ve got to figure this out. Like, I’ve got to figure this out. And so I did my work and went through my journey. But it’s not like it happened right away. But I just remember that. I felt this teeny, tiny shift. It was so minuscule. But I felt it. It’s like this first positive little feeling I felt in the longest time because I couldn’t even breathe. I had so much anxiety, I couldn’t even take a deep breath. And then but I just the metaphors like I saw this pinhole of light, like complete dark, dark, dark room, and there’s this like a needle sized point of light. And it’s like I just and then that changed everything. It’s like if there’s a needle point of light, there’s more light, I actually can believe now that there’s light and then over time and doing work. It just turned into all lightness slowly but surely, you know, just it spread and then I kind of woke up one day like, Oh my god, the darkness is gone, you know? But what was your defining moment? Do you have a moment where you remember like, ah, I think I’m I think I’ve just changed the trajectory of this.
So I didn’t let well a lot of our clients have that have those moments. Mine was a very subtle shift to where I started doing this work in the first thing I didn’t have like a glimmer of light or hope. The first thing I experienced was fascination with the work and when I saw when I saw what was going to be possible with what I was discovering. So I started to have a little bit like a little bit of the heaviness started to go away. But what I Do remember, that’s like what interestingly enough, is, even though I started to feel like I was, oh my gosh, you know, I’m not going downhill, I’m not staying stuck anymore, I think things are a little bit better. And I don’t have any defining moments there. What I do remember is when I started to work with other people, and I was able to take this work, and in a matter of a handful of hours, you know, somebody got rid of their lifelong anxiety, and someone cleared out their procrastination that they had been dealing with, or for years, another person that I knew and totally cleared out their fear of failure. When I was working with people and seeing the results and getting the feedback from them. They’re jumping up and down for joy, like you changed my life. This is everything. I remember that the fulfillment, and the excitement, and just the like, overwhelming joy, I was getting hits of joy, because I was seeing what was possible for other people and how I could then contribute to others in the world. That was, that was when I started having these like, bursts of Oh, if I can do this, I can be fulfilled, I can contribute I can I can feel happy again, like I could connect to to a deeper meaning and being able to positively contribute back to the world and be able to help people clear out and reduce the suffering that I was so intimately familiar with from the past couple of years. And I was like if I could help people get out of what I just experienced for two years. I’m good. And so it was the fulfillment and the excitement that I had from being able to serve other people that ended up pulling me out. And I was having these hits every week more and more and more of being able to serve others.
Yeah, wow, I can just feel that and just the way you’re talking about it, just your smile and the exhilaration of you know, you can see the uplift as just the way you describe that. So let’s talk about you know, I think you know, so many of us as entrepreneurs that succeed. And you know, we it’s great with big successes we do well, we build really good businesses. But so many entrepreneurs, I believe, are like where you and I were right, that were really motivated. And driven by some underlying force, like a shadow side, like it more of a negative force versus a positive one that makes us successful. So the great thing that comes out of that success, but there’s the double, it’s a double edged sword, that it could create a breaking point like both you and I experienced, or just being stuck in this loop of, of never good enough. And you know, and what that ultimately feels like, and it cascades to every category of life. And then it’s just pushed more and push harder. And you and I share a similar philosophy as well that like less is more like, so what are what are what are some of the traps or some of the patterns that you see that we as entrepreneurs are in through this pattern in this programming that we’re just in unknowingly, that ultimately is not leading to joint fulfillment, no matter how hard we work, no matter how successful we get?
Oh, gosh, um, two things. One is sometimes I do see there’s, there’s a well researched concept that when people have what they call junk values, when they have and they set goals, where there’s just, there’s no, we do things and act, because we want to feel a certain way, we want to feel safe, we want to feel at peace, we want to feel connected, we want to feel love As humans, we want to feel certain ways. But sometimes when people are disconnected from their feelings, or they’re raised a certain way, or they were pushed to absorb other people’s values, we’ll find people who have what we call junk values. Well, I want my business to break 50 million this year, I want to make I want to have a take home salary of 150k a month, whatever it is, like these these different numbers, or I want my business to have X number of employees, or I want to start, you know, Bill, you know, sell X number of widgets this year. And when you go, what’s the why behind it? If there’s nothing there, if it’s empty, it’s a number and those are the people that achieve and they’re aimed and they’re focused at something and they get to that next level. And there there’s just emptiness and there’s nothing there and there’s no fulfillment. There’s there’s no feeling behind it. It was just it’s a number on a piece of paper. And so sometimes we find that when people have these junk values and they’re not doing something for a reason to feel a certain way that they end up being perpetually disappointed because they set these targets and goals that have absolutely nothing behind them. So that’s a common instead of saying like, how do I want to feel And how do I want to feel such an important part of being a human on this planet literally, like my business coach has me set up every, like, what are the different ways that I want to feel I attract that every week on a scale of one to 10? And I look at like, am I moving forward? Am I feeling more and more towards the different feelings I want to experience and that’s a really important part of our entrepreneurial journey. So junk values is one. But honestly, what we end up seeing is that a lot of business leaders and entrepreneurs are successful, in spite of what’s going on with them. And in spite of their drive, not because of it, we find that a lot of people are motivated by sticks, or by their demons, and they’re trying to get away from so they’re moving forward. But it’s because they’re running away from feelings of not being good enough of not being successful terror, and fears of being a failure. And they’re trying to not feel a certain way. Instead of having, you know, instead of stick motivation, instead of having a carrot motivation, like I wake up every morning now, and I’m like, I get to get out of bed, I get to work with people, I get to help people transform and, and be the versions of themselves that they want and feel safe and feel powerful, feel effective, I get to do that. That’s the carrot motivation, of being able to move towards something. Whereas a lot of people, they think they’re successful, because of their fears. Well, I’m, I’m successful, because I’m terrified of being poor, or terrified, or I never want to be a failure, you know, just because the way my dad was or something. And when you’re running away from something, it’s, it’s, it’s more of a hamster wheel experience, where you’re never feeling fulfilled you it’s hard to re energize. You’re constantly running away, it’s almost like you’re in that, you know, you’re in a nightmare. And you’re like, in that slow motion perpetual, like, I’m just running away from these things forever. And I happen to be moving towards things that make it look like I’m successful. But inside, inside, there’s that that dread and the terror and the I never feeling okay, are safe. So I think that confusion of I use my fears. And what I don’t want as my primary motivation is one of the more common mistakes, or issues that we see entrepreneurs and leaders experiencing.
Yeah, you’re so right. And it’s not obvious that that fear is what is the drive, because you know, underlying it, I know for me, like no matter what rung of the ladder of success, I got to it was subconscious. But the subconscious belief structure was like, I don’t feel anything different here. It must be at the next level of success. We’re all feel different than the next level. And next level, that combined with no matter where I got, there was always somebody else doing better. So it’s kind of that envy in a way like, well, I’m still not good enough, because those guys were doing better. I need to be there. And then maybe I’ll be full, you know, you know, so it’s always that, like you said that perpetual hamster will have, at the end of the day, no matter where you get. It’s never good enough, because I was never good enough.
Mm hmm. Absolutely, absolutely. It’s just this. I don’t know, I can’t say it better than you did it, you’re never good enough, no matter what you do. And if you get ahead of it, it fades really quickly. Because there’s another level, there’s something else you haven’t done, or other people are doing better. And it’s just this sinking feeling that you could it’s a hole and it can never be filled, basically.
And I love what you say to I’ve never really thought about it that way. And what you call junk values. I’m like, Wow, that’s so good. And it’s so true. Because again, as entrepreneurs when I’m working with them, I’ll say like, what are your your financial goals? And they’ll say, same thing. I want to $5 million business. So I’m like, that’s great. And why 5 million? Where’d it come from? And there’s, you know, they don’t have an answer. And then I said, Did somebody else is a peer of yours or somebody at 5 million? Like, what’s behind the why of why five? Did you just pull it out of the sky? that very few people ever have any answers to these numbers that they just, you know, throw out there. And then that’s the direction and that’s, you know, the drive to hit that number just for the sake of I put that put that number in the ground.
So, share with me what would be so what would be the replacement for junk values. So to go from that, which is more I say typical when you’re working with people How are you working with them when you’re helping themselves set their ambitions and their goals and direction of where they want their their lives and their businesses to be?
It’s interesting. We typically don’t when we work with clients, we typically don’t venture too much into the world of readjusting what people desire, we will provide some guidance and explain the concept of junk values. And we will try to orient people towards getting clear about what it is they actually want versus what they don’t want. Will we use something called the miracle question? And so we asked people to kind of rate where they are and how they’re feeling every day, on a scale of one to 10. And sometimes people say, Oh, I’m out of five. I’m like, Okay, fair. Now, if you went to sleep tonight, and a miracle happened overnight, and you woke up the next morning, and you are at a six, and you have to do anything. How would you know, what would you be seen? And what would you be feeling? And a lot of times people are so focused on what they don’t want? Well, my wife wouldn’t be screaming, and my kids wouldn’t be crying, and my employees wouldn’t be messing up the sales calls. And so No, no, no. What would you be seeing then instead? What would you be feeling? How would you know, things are at a six. And it’s a fascinating exercise. And some people struggle will take 15 minutes to try to wrap their head around weight, what it could look like to be better. So we don’t suggest, again, we’re not business coaches. So the reason people come to us is they’re like, I’m trying to go in this direction. But I’m stuck. So our entire business is all about subtraction, we pull out like the boulders that are blocking the river, you know, people’s momentum, so that they can move forward so that there’s no friction or resistance, we get rid of their fears or their procrastination, their imposter syndrome, the harsh inner critic that’s yelling at them, they’re their money blocks. They’re although that resistance, so we clear those out. And then if someone’s like, Great, now, I’m like a better version of them, of myself, will send them to someone like you or to a business coach, so that they can then actually implement on the strategic and the tactical business side of things. But we we aren’t typically business coaches. That being said, we do you encourage people to focus more on? How is it you want to feel? At the end of the day? When you get to the end of the day? How will you know the successful day? Do you want to feel fulfilled? Do you want to feel joyful? Do you want to feel safe? Do you want to feel happy? Do you want to feel light? What is it that you want to feel, because that is what that’s what we’re all that’s why we do things, we do things so we can feel a certain way, whether we’re trying to numb our pain, and people are going and drinking a bunch of alcohol at the end of the day, or they are jumping out of airplanes because they want to feel excitement and alive. Or they’re going on Tinder because they want to feel like they’re in love. Like we do things so we can feel a certain way. So we ask people to focus on the feelings. And that’s something that a lot of people, especially in business, it’s an totally new concept. But again, we always take a step back and say we’re not business coaches. So we’re not going to guide you in terms of what specific goals to set for your business.
When you’re working with people, what are what would be recurrent meaning it’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty typical that you’re going to be bumping into these these types of conversations, like what are some of the biggest mental roadblocks or narratives that you see over and over and over again,
I would say the top mental roadblocks that we run into and that we work with number one has got to be avoidance or procrastination patterns, where people know what they need to do to move their business forward. You know, I need to develop this arm of the business, I need to build out the sales division of the company and get new trainings. I need to sit down and cold call my friends and raise you know, another 15 million before the end of them, whatever it is, like, I peep people are clear on what they need to do. A lot of times they have a mentor or a coach literally telling them they know their next steps. And yet they get to the end of every day, and it’s never these things are never checked off their to do list. And it’s it becomes a chronic avoidance pattern and then they start going Why am I not doing this? I’m broken. What’s wrong with me? Why am I not doing what I need to do? So I’d say that’s probably the the most common is when people know what they need to do and they don’t do it. Then I would say a close runner up no matter what level Business are working at is some form of imposter syndrome, where people, even though they’re successful in the back of their head, they’re like, I’m going to be found out. I’m a fake, I’m a fraud, I’m a phony, I don’t actually deserve the success. I don’t deserve to be in the room. And then that manifests itself into a number of different symptoms, like fear of public speaking, or people not moving forward with business opportunities, or kind of self sabotaging as things start to get better and better. They’re like, I don’t, this is not for me, right? Success is not for me, and they kind of squash or mess up opportunities. And then I would say another two main ones are, there’s just the kind of the people who have a really harsh inner critic. So no matter what they do, they’re always beating themselves up. And so you’ll have someone who on the outside is wildly successful. And yet, they get to the end of their work week, and they’re like, I feel like I have like scale of one to 10 my energies at a two. And I just thought, there’s a constant onslaught of criticism, and you suck, and you’re no good, and you’re a loser, and you’re a failure, and you’re gonna mess things up. And even though things are going good, now they’re going to be bad, you know, there’s just like, the, the internal dialogue is really noisy and oppressive. And then I would say the another final category is people who have fears, and a kind of a variety of garden variety of fears of like fear of success, that if things get good, I’m going to either, you know, lose connection with my family, I won’t have enough time to have a good work life balance, fear of failure, and fear that things aren’t going to work out that it’s all gonna kind of come crashing down, and good things aren’t gonna last. I’d say those are some, by far the most common things that we work with people, even though it’s a wide variety of, of challenges that people have those ones repeat over and over regularly, that the people we work with.
And when it comes to money, blocks, what are the money blocks you’re seeing most often?
Yes, um, interestingly enough, we have a lot of people, especially from deeply religious backgrounds, who are constantly fighting against guilt, and shame around being successful and having a lot of money. So a lot of these people were raised in environments where they were taught that rich people are evil, rich, people are greedy, or in the religious environments, money is the root of all evil. If you have a lot of money, you’re a sinner, you’re a bad person. So even though a lot of these people intellectually and consciously know that or disagree with that, again, it’s like a programs, those rules got locked in. And those tapes are running in the background constantly. And they’re trying to like, not listen to the old programming from their childhood. So definitely money is for greedy people. If you’re, if you’re wealthy, then you’re, you’re a bad person. And then there’s another subset of people. We worked with the, the one of the founding members of a software company, and he exited in his 20s. And the company sold for a quarter billion. And so here’s this kid in his 20s. And you think he’s totally fine. He’s pretty, he’s got more money than most people will have in 10 lifetimes. And yet, it didn’t matter the amount of money that he had, he was waking up every day with this irrational fear that he was going to lose it all. I mean, he had it absolutely in all different areas, and was managed exquisitely, and that there was a sphere, everything was going to go away. And it’s, and I’m going to lose it all. He also had a very common roadblock that we see in people who are starting to be more and more successful. And gain wealth is I don’t deserve this. It’s almost like I, who am I, to have this money. So there’s the people who feel like if this is bad, I’m bad if I have it, but then there’s a subgroup of people, when they start looking at money. It’s like, I don’t I don’t deserve this. It’s not okay. Like, you know, who am I my family’s suffering, and there’s people in the world suffering and why me? And so sometimes people will find that they have guilt and shame and the deserving piece, they don’t actually deserve it. I’d say that the other really common block that that we find is that people start to struggle with it’s almost like they feel that if I’m succeeding, I’m hurting other people. So these people often will struggle to raise the prices of their services and their products or they will They’ll self sabotage to keep themselves not as successful. And on the same playing field as whether it’s their colleagues or their family, or other people in their world, because it’s like, they think in a, in Australia, they call it like tall poppy syndrome, or they have these different, they just feel so bad about exceeding and doing better than other people. And they feel like if I’m doing well, I’m actually hurting others. So those would be some of the really common ones that we see.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
What We Covered
The Top Roadblocks: 33-39 min
- Procrastination (and the knowledge of it)
- Not feeling deserving of money and wealth/success
- Struggling with succeeding/self-sabotage/feeling bad for doing better than others
Take-away Tip: [45:43]
1. “Get really clear on what your exact patterns are. First thing you do is take what pr0blem you are facing, and stop saying “I am this”, get clear on the PATTERN you are experiencing.” – [46:40]
“There was this feeling that I was supposed to be doing something else. I was getting kind of bored out. The web industry was becoming commoditized and I just felt like there’s something more— this is not what I’m meant to be doing the rest of my life, and the sense was getting stronger and stronger…” – Erin ([1:30])
“There was this one day that changed everything, that I look back on, and it was like the day that I started a new direction. And the woman that I was sitting on the couch, across from, she was this kind of spiritual woman and she said: “you know, you’re so miserable, and you are so stuck, because of how you see the world— because of your mental lens— it is so dirty. Like all of the programming and the beliefs, and the rules that are running your life, they are so faulty that it doesn’t matter what you do. You can’t get unstuck…” – Erin ([4:35])
“As I changed, the pain started to decrease. I had friends who were like, ‘what are you doing?’ And I started with them… and it just snowballed from there, and suddenly I had a line out the door and it was so fulfilling and people’s lives were changed so quickly, so drastically…” – Erin ([6:58])
“At the end of the day, how will you know it’s a successful day? Do you want to feel fulfilled? Do you want to feel joyful? Do you want to feel safe? Do you want to feel happy? Light? How is it that you want to feel? Because THAT is why we do things. We do things so we can feel a certain way.” – Erin ([31:40])
“People get stuck chasing transformation because they never actually experienced transformation; they just got more tools.” – Erin ([42:50])
“We, as human beings, act according as what we believe to be true. Our beliefs determine how we think, how we feel. ” – Erin ([48:27])
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