#179 – Mastery Of Money With Adam Carroll

Krisstina Wise [0:05]
Welcome back. This is Christina wise your host In this episode I interview Adam Carroll. Adam is also in the money coaching business and I consider him a real Financial Rockstar. He and I speak the same money language and we’re fully aligned in our unconventional financial philosophy, mindset and approach. I knew we got each other when you use the word lifestyle architecture, which is the tagline to wealthy wealthy a lifestyle architecture company out of is a professional speaker, documentary filmmaker, author, and it’s known by many from his TEDx talk that has over 5 million views. In his talk, he shares his story about what was revealed about his children their money, beliefs and behaviors by playing Monopoly, but this time using real money. In addition to talking about how to architect and build a truly wealthy life, Adam shares his practical debt elimination strategy called the shred method. So if you’d like to pick up some nuggets about lifestyle, architecture, Money Mastery, and or slashing debt to zero, you’ll wish to listen in, please enjoy my conversation with Adam Carroll. Adam, I’m so excited to be having this conversation with you today. Thanks for being on the wealthy, wealthy podcast.

Adam Carrol [1:18]
It is an absolute pleasure, Christina. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time.

Krisstina Wise [1:23]
Oh my gosh, that we when we met and we had a conversation and I mean, I just thought I just love this man. I want to know more about what you do. I love your philosophy. I loved your TEDx video. And anyway, you’re just doing something right. So I want I can’t wait to have my all of my audience listening in and learning about you your work the shred method, we’re going to talk about living a bigger life. We’re going to talk about wealthy wealthy, my subtitle to that brand is a life architecture company and you talk about life architecture, and we really resonate with the way we think and behave with our money. So let’s just change And I can’t wait to know more about you.

Adam Carrol [2:03]
Yeah, fantastic. I’m super excited about this for one main reason and that is wealthy wealthy, the name of your, your program, your podcast, all of it is that it’s about health and wealth. And that being well, mentally well, physically well, spiritually, well, financially. Well, all of it plays into itself. And a long time ago, Christy and I realized that I wanted to pursue the mastery of money. And, and I started doing a ton of research on that. And I realized that the healthier I was, the better off I was the like, life just got bigger over time. And so yeah, I’m super anxious to chat about it today.

Krisstina Wise [2:45]
Yeah, I love that. And I love that you appreciate it. I really, I mean, I fully believe that health is our biggest wealth but health is physical health, mental health, emotional health, relational health, psychological health, and so if fill these into the health category money just underwrites the cost of health helping us be really healthy. Totally. And you know, when we have it in that right order money can serve a really cool purpose. And I know you believe the same thing. Alright, so for everybody listening in, tell us in fact, including myself, tell me tell us your story. Who are you? And what got you to where we’re sitting across the virtual table from each other? What right now?

Adam Carrol [3:27]
Well, I, I would say that I am still a guy who does not really know what I want to do when I grow up. And so there’s a little bit of perpetual child in me which I think my parents, at one point had coined, that I was just perpetually curious. And I found that even getting into adulthood. One of the things I realized was I’m just really curious about a lot of different industries and a lot of different businesses and people are very curious to me. And so I started studying all of those things years ago. I think reason we’re across the table from each other is I got into speaking and made a living as a professional speaker for about 15 to 20 years and continue to do it today I’ll be it a little bit different in the environment we’re in. I’m doing a ton virtually. But as a byproduct of being a speaker, one of the things that I’m sort of forced to do is know a lot about a lot. And so I found that my curiosity fed into that really well. And I love to read, I love to share ideas. As a result of, you know, my passion for learning. What I found is there are people who will call me just to riff on ideas. And I love that. And so, at some point in my, my career, I figured out there was a way to make money doing that, and I’ve been doing that kind of stuff for a while. So, you know, I think the the common thread that you and I have is that we have both really studied money for a long time. And when I started in the speaking business money was kind of my core message. Because I turned my mess into my message, I was a debt statistic when I graduated from college, had $8,000 in credit card debt was upside down on my car. You know, my dog died at home, my girl had left me at school, I was like every country western song ever written. And then I realized, through the help of my wife today, that I was I was being an idiot around money, and I needed to treat my money well and, and I started getting really intent on studying money, how it works, how to make it, how to keep it, how to grow it, and all the different facets of that. And as I did that, I realized all the options and choices that having some level of financial freedom gives you and then I got really geeked out about teaching other people how to do the same. And so today, that’s kind of one of my main messages in going out is helping people what I call build a bigger life, you know, architecting the life that they really want. But build a bigger life, not a bigger lifestyle. dial. So teach them also that having more money at the end of the month is really critical. And what you do with that money, then at the end of the month is even more critical. So that for me today, that’s my passion, I love to help people free themselves from, you know, the bondage, whatever it is that they may be in, and help them create the life that really lights them up.

Krisstina Wise [6:22]
So from your point of view, what is the missing piece, the missing message? What is not obvious out there where the automatic thing to your point is more money, bigger lifestyle, higher income, higher expenses, to where there’s not the connecting of the dots, that this behavior of spending more money relative to the money we’re making? Is the trap. So why do you think that exists? And then what do you say to break out of that paradigm?

Adam Carrol [6:56]
Yeah, great question. Boy, this is it. This is like a multifaceted, multi layered answer, probably. But number one, I think that what is missing is the realization that how we were raised may not be how we should live. You know what I mean? Like there are some people out there who were raised in a house where, as an example, I had a coaching call with a woman the other day. And I said, Well, where do you find you spend a lot of money and she said, food, I spent a ton of money on food and I know I shouldn’t but it’s my security. And at one point in my life, I had food insecurity. And, you know, for me connect with her connecting the dots that the you is a child that experienced food insecurity is not the same you today, that as a full time job, and you know, a good income and all the decisions you could make today that would prevent you from having food insecurity. Put in another way or another context, I have another client who he grew up in Fairly affluent family and his dad gave him everything. And he’s given his kids everything, times 10. And he’s like, I’m not saving a ton of cash. And that’s a problem because he’s 50 or 52. And he’s looking to the future going, I don’t know how I’m going to save what I need to save in 20 years. And we started connecting the dots that the way your father raised you, and the way you’re raising your kids maybe needs to be examined. Because that’s not the most important thing. So I think number one, Christina, and this we could probably unpack for sure, is just that. There’s a program that we’re all running around money. And when we realize that the program was something that was installed in us as kids, right, wrong or indifferent, and most of the time it was all by happenstance. Until we challenged that program. I don’t know that we can get on the other side of it where we’re like, we’re not buying to fulfill some need we had as kids were buying because it truly fits our values. And that’s the second part of my answer is that I think that we have to get really, really clear on what our core values are. So for me family freedom, love growth and connection. Those are my top five core values. And my spending is typically really closely aligned with with whatever those five core values are.

Krisstina Wise [9:23]
Yeah, I always said like, show me your books and I’ll show you what you care about.

Adam Carrol [9:27]
Totally.

Krisstina Wise [9:28]
We can live in illusion to say we care about these things. These are what we value but isn’t the way we spend our dollars. Isn’t that a sign of I don’t know I really do value convenience and and fast food over my health even though I say it’s very important or whatever the case is, however, that might show up.

Adam Carrol [9:51]
my health, my future retirement security, all those things, right. I mean, realistically, some people do hold convenience far up have security even, right? I mean, like, there’s a cost to using Postmates. And Uber Eats and all of that. And some people, even in, in a situation we’re in. I’ve had people say, I’m just really overspending eating out, you know, ordering takeout. So it does become a question of well, then what do you value over convenience? Because maybe we need to focus on that.

Krisstina Wise [10:25]
Yeah, you know, and that just that makes me think if I’m with you, I mean, I, maybe we know too much about money in a certain way something I try to do dollars that like, add up the math in my head, sometimes I’m thinking, How I wonder, am I just make do I make less money than others? Because if I start doing the math, I’m like, how are they doing? Uber Eats and how are they doing this? And this and this, and this something? I must be doing something wrong, because no. But what do you I think, where does narrative and justification come into this whole equation? It’s like, Oh, well, it’s only a few dollars. Extra to do Uber Eats and it’s really convenient saving me for XYZ. So we’re like, how do you how do you respond to that? What do you say to that?

Adam Carrol [11:10]
They’re in my mind. There are two or three core reasons for this. I think number one, I’m not sure a lot of people have a long term vision. We’re so in the moment today, we’re a very microwave culture. Our attention spans are miniscule. I mean, think about the number of times like, as an example, Christina, people are taking their cell phones into the bathroom with them to occupy themselves while they’re in the bathroom. So I listened to a podcast one time and this guy said, Please, for dear god sakes, stop taking your phone and just be by yourself for two minutes. be alone with your thoughts. So I think number one, we have a very short term outlook. And to not spend $3 on a, you know, a piece of pizza and a soda at a convenience store. That’s a very short term decision. The longer term decision is, what does the future look like? And what would it mean, if you had an extra $30 a month put away that’s 10 stops you’re not making, but most people don’t really think that way. So number one, I think we got to have a long term focus of, you know, retirement may be a long way off for some people, but what does it look like? And how do you think you’re going to get there? Because it doesn’t just magically happen overnight. So number one, long term number two, I think some of the justification is going back to that program that was installed when you were a kid. So another client of mine has this ongoing justification of lie deserve it? And the when we started digging into why does she deserve it? The answer, not so surprisingly, for me, surprisingly, for her was because I never had it as a kid. And I deserve to have it as an adult. Because that’s my right I’m an adult I should deserve. I deserve these things. And yet there wasn’t enough income to be deserving of all those things. And so most of it was put on credit. And then came massive payments and missed payments, which created credit score issues which created massive interest. And then she found herself in this massive hole, all because of the logic of I deserve it. So, you know, again, it goes back to like, what is the program we’re running? And is it real? And do we have this long term vision of what we want so that our present self is actually helping to secure the future that we want for our future self?

Krisstina Wise [13:35]
Yeah, right on. How much of it also is a fear of like, what is or what is the fear, in your opinion, opinion of wanting to approach the money of wanting to do some pretty simple calculations and wanting to look into the future and say, Hey, what do we want our future to look like and how much money is enough and Can we do a few little factors? And can we just put that in motion? Is it just a lack of awareness that that’s really a necessary part of this whole life experience that actually cost money to survive and live? Or is it a fear of or is about?

Adam Carrol [14:16]
I think it’s fear. You know, if I were to pinpoint maybe two or three things again, it’s, it’s fear. It’s, for some people shame because of the decisions they’ve made in the past and not wanting to face that shame. And number three, I think some of it is ignorance. It’s the idea that I mean, I’ll be very candid. My, my father is a retired guy. He’s been retired now for about three years. He’s got this amazing spreadsheet that he’s built, that will tell him what everything is doing and if he takes from here how much it has to adjust here, and he knows that he and my mom can live comfortably till about 88 and then they got to make some very tough decisions. And for me, that’s overwhelming like to build. It’s like the spreadsheet of the massive domain, you know, how do you ever get to a point where you can build that? Well, that’s kind of disconcerting for some people to do. And so I think the unknown is there. So fear for sure people are afraid of what they don’t know. The unknown or uncertainty, ignorance. And last is the shame of having made bad decisions in the past. And the reality is, money when you boil it down to its most ridiculous is really pretty simple. You know, I mean, like, I think if you said if you realize that, if I always have more money at the end of the month, and I know I put that money in something that’s going to grow over time I understand compound interest. I’m probably going to be okay, down the road.

Krisstina Wise [15:47]
It really is that simple. I said you know, do you want to know the million dollar secret to be rich? Tell me to spend less than you make. I mean, it’s I wish it were more complicated, right? Anyway, well, so what do you say with the shame card? Like how do you work with people, when they’re really facing that, you know, a metaphor that I use sometimes it’s, you know, over time, busy, have kids life takes over, and all of a sudden, you’ve got that extra 20 pounds. And you don’t want to step on the scale because you kind of know what it’s going to say. But you just don’t want to see it, because that’s truth. So maybe you can pretend that it’s a little bit less or something, something. And there’s a day when you just decide, like, I’m just stepping on the gosh darn thing, and I’ll deal with it. I’ll do gulp it is what it is. Get over the story of whatever it took to get here. And it’s like, okay, now that I now that I’m on the scale, I can get a plan to get the weight off. I mean, a lot of people have before me so I can too, and I can get get healthy and do what’s required. So you know, what do you say to that? Like, I call it the money scale, like how do you advise people to kind of just look at like, just pay someone straight on and work to get past it.

Adam Carrol [17:05]
I think Tony Robbins may have said the coin this but you know there’s the pain of discipline or the pain of regret. And my fear for most people is the pain of regret as you get older and you realize I don’t have enough for retirement or, I mean, the statistics right now are staggeringly scary. 25% of Americans haven’t saved enough for retirement at all. Many of them I don’t know what the exact percentages, but there’s some crazy statistic that says they’ve saved less than $10,000 for retirement. And at some point, I think people gonna wake up and go, Okay, well, what is future me gonna cost me and will so so. So security is what I call social insecurity. Is that going to be enough to allow me to live the life that I want? I definitely don’t want to be working forever. So when you get on the money scale, the way to get over the shame of getting on that money scale, in some cases is Just owning that I’ve made bad decisions. My bad decisions in the past don’t dictate my good decisions in the future. And I’m really happy to have the pain of discipline today. I again, having a conversation with another client of mine, she was very, very shameful of what was going on. And in fact, she was near bankruptcy near the point of having to declare bankruptcy. And it almost brought her to tears even talking about it, Christina and I said, there’s a lot of emotion there for you tell me about that. And she said, Well, I feel really guilty. I feel really shameful. I work for a financial company. And I’m not supposed to do this. And so for her, the shame was real around the people she was surrounding herself with and what she should be doing versus what she was doing. And when we boiled it down to kind of the reasons and where the shame came from, she just didn’t feel worthy. And so she bought things for herself. In order to feel worthy, and then the buying of stuff, limited how much he had extra at the end of the month, which resulted in nonright. So it is it’s a really interesting cycle when people start digging into it. But deep down I think it goes back to What’s your relationship with money and what was the program that was installed early on? Fortunately for me, I was, I was raised in a household where I actually had kind of a dichotomy. My dad was this super prosperous, a prosperous minded at least he believed in abundance and had the abundance mentality. My mom had grown up in a household where there wasn’t a lot of money. And she had the ability to make the leap from something was going to happen to we were homeless and like three leaps, you know, it’s like all your data that day at work, and he’s not going to go along with his boss, and now we’re going to be homeless. We’d make that leap real quickly, and I chose to go with my dad’s sort of abundance mentality. And luckily healed my relationship with money early on where the value for me is, is in having freedom and flexibility and options and choice as opposed to a whole bunch. But I find your caught your question really pointed about? How do you get past the shame and get on the money scale? I think he had to face the relationship head-on.

Krisstina Wise [20:24]
So he shared with me your relationship to the relationship with money meaning between you and your wife, so yeah, what does that look like? How do you guys talk about it? How do you guys work it and what is your advice when it comes to marriage and money?

Adam Carrol [20:42]
years ago, when we first got married, a friend of mine referred a book to me it was smart couples finish rich by David Bach. And we read the book together chapter by chapter. And in one I remember we were probably 23 or 24 at the time, and I remember one of the chapters suggested that men and women have different risk tolerances and that it was imperative that, that you ask your spouse how much they need to have in savings to feel safe and secure at any point in time. Now, keep in mind, we’re 23 or 24, recently out of school, had, you know, have jobs make or dinks at that point, dual-income, no kids. So there’s a little bit of money but not a lot. And we’re blasting away debt on a monthly basis. And so one morning over breakfast, I said, Dave, how much do you need to have in savings to feel safe and secure at any given point in time, and without skipping a beat Christina, she said $20,000. And I thought she’d hit the Listerine too hard that morning, because I was like, You’re out of your mind. And then we blast away all of our debt and like 24 months, we had 3030 $200 extra income every single month, took us six, six and a half months to get 20 grand set aside. And from that point forward, we’ve never had any arguments. And so that book was instrumental for us. Getting on the same page. And I think that from a relationship perspective, if one person says, Hey, we need 500 bucks in savings, and we’re good, and the other person says we need 20,000, you’re always gonna have conflict around money because the two people are coming from two very different standpoints. And so the way we handle money today is we’re very open. We have money dates, once a month, we know exactly where the money’s going. We know what’s being spent. At one point in time, we realized there was a number of what each of us could spend before we had to consult with the other. Because that created some conflict. More for me than it was for her because I was buying, I’d be like, well, I need this tech for $300 on Amazon, and she’s like, why are we spending this money on? So getting on the same page is critical. And then, and this is really important. I think the last point I’ll make on it is that I’m blown away what two people People can accomplish when they put their minds together on a common, you know, unified goal. And so if you are in a relationship where it feels like there is some discord around money, and you got to get together on exactly where you’re going because together, you can get there really, really fast.

Unknown Speaker [23:21]
I love that.

Krisstina Wise [23:23]
So something that I bump up against with some of my, my clients or prospective clients is that they are on a conversation, a consultation, they want to do go through my money school, do some, you know, learn about this thing. But they really want to get their spouse on board, but they just don’t know how to do it. So do you have any recommendations there especially I’ve worked with a lot of women that want to get their husband but whatever reason their husband’s not going, they’re not wanting to stick in their hand, you know, their heels in and, and so, one format, you know, I’d say from just your Your Money Mastery perspective and in that experience in to from a male perspective, what would you say, as maybe advice to women? That is what to say to perhaps get her spouse on board?

Adam Carrol [24:13]
The first thing I would ask is, and this may seem like a completely out of the box question, but I would, I would start a dialogue with this person and ask them, what was your earliest money memory? Tell him Tell me about the very first memory you had about money. What was going on Who was there? And I think interestingly, most people will, something will come right to mind for them. And they’ll say things like, I remember being on vacation, and my parents gave me a $20 bill, and it slipped out of my pocket at the park. And I was devastated because I just felt dumb that I lost it. And I didn’t want to tell my parents so there was a lot of shame around it. And then my dad berated me because that $20 was a lot of money to them that they gave To then trusted me with, it’ll be things like that someone might say, Oh, I remember Deke Deke dipping in my hand into my grandpa’s money jar. And I remember how generous he was. And so I wanted to be generous. And whatever that early money memory was, typically has planted a seed at some level. And that seed is created who they are, you know, our money. personality is generally set by the time we’re nine years old. And so for the man that the male in the relationship that doesn’t want to face money, I would speculate that something happened in their upbringing. Maybe they were, they were How shall I put this economically disadvantaged. And they said, screw it. When I get older, I’m gonna buy whatever I want. And I’m not going to pay any attention to money because I’m tired of clipping coupons and I’m not going to scrimp and save. And I’m not going to buy off label cans I’m buying label you know, labeled food, brand lean food. I want my kids to have Polo, you know, insignias on their shirts, etc, etc. There is a reason that they are that way. And if you go back to the earliest money memory and you help start connecting the dots, it might be interesting for them to go. I never really made that connection. I’ve never made it before. So the first thing early money memories, and I’m curious, your take on that.

Krisstina Wise [26:29]
I love that. So it’s in from a male perspective, what would you advise a woman maybe to say that might make them open minded? There’s clearly some fear there. There’s some fears, shame, embarrassment, not wanting to look bad. Who knows what that story is? That, you know, what would you advise maybe a wife to say to her husband to that didn’t feel threatening and that actually opened up so I love that question. Like, Hey, babe, I just was listening to a podcast and I’m curious, what is your earliest money memory, you know? can be as just as simple and non threatening. Is that like an Oh, by the way type statement?

Adam Carrol [27:04]
Totally. I would. Interestingly, I would ask another question and the question would be, if money were a person, and I got this from a good friend of mine named Nick Durr, who’s a great money coach, but if money were a person, so if money shows up at your door, knocks on the door, and money were a person, how would you describe the person? And what is your relationship to that to that person? And again, total, totally out of the box question. The answers that we get when we ask the question that people range there is different as it’s a nameless shapeless figure that when I get close to it, it goes away. Some people will say it’s like a mob boss. I’ve had one guy tell me that it was like a really hot girl it across the bar that I’m afraid to go talk to. For me, interestingly, that that question the way I answer it, it’s a close friend. That I see all the time. And I’d love to spend time with them. There’s so much fun. We have such a good time together, but there’s this mutual respect of each other. And I even know who it is. It’s a good friend of mine named Joel, he looks similar to me, but a little bit older and wiser. And, but but I know exactly what that relationship is. And the interesting thing for, you know, again, if this is a female having this conversation with their male counterpart, it allows them to talk about money in a way that’s not threatening, because it’s very abstract. But you could start to draw the parallels of why someone says, Oh, my earliest money memory was I lost 20 bucks at an amusement park. And when you think about money, what does it look like? Oh, it’s, you know, it’s we don’t have a very good relationship. Sometimes he’s here sometimes he’s gone. Whenever I’m looking for him. He’s never here. We can draw the connection between the to do and then you go interesting. How do you think that shows up? A Day in our life. And it’s like, well, I’m really spontaneous, because when I have it, I spend it. And I’m not good with cash. Because as a kid, I learned that sometimes it’s there. Sometimes it’s not. So when you start making those connections, then I think the next step is, and I would, I would I would relate to this, if my wife came to me, and she said, Honey, I love you. I want to spend the rest of our days doing all the fun things that we want to do. What does it look like for you? Let me paint a picture of what it looks like for me. And then creating a picture that we can live into with our money decisions. And then you just slowly start to like peel back the behaviors to make sure that that future actually occurs.

Unknown Speaker [29:45]
I love that.

Krisstina Wise [29:47]
All right, let’s throw the kids in what’s How do you work with kids and money in your household? Yeah. What do you advise here?

Adam Carrol [29:55]
So you mentioned my TED talk at the very beginning, and I was I was fortunate enough to get asked to go do a TED talk at the London Business School. And I was racking my brain on what I would do. And I had this idea. One day when I was playing Monopoly with a kid. They were playing like, really outside of the rules of the game. And I was kind of wondering why they were doing that. So I started wondering what if I played the game of Monopoly with real cash? Would it change the way they played the game because they were playing, you know, roll the dice, move the spaces, it was all about the slips of paper and chance and Community Chest cards. But it wasn’t about the business that was at hand on the table. And so I wanted to teach them about that. So we played a cash game of Monopoly $10,000 in cash on the kitchen table, pulled out of my home equity line of credit, by the way. And in the midst of playing the game, Christina, we I realized that my kids all had this money persona already. But I could probably influence them in a certain way by teaching them money lessons. So the money lessons we’d started teaching was, they each had money, they had cash in their hands every single week. But the difference was they had to start making decisions on their own. And we would be there to guide and coach and support them. But it was not about us as parents, doing the, you know, buying the thing, making the decisions, etc. And essentially, what I wanted them to do was fail with $5 and $10 and $20 and 50 and 100, frankly, before they got to college, and they failed with 1000 or 5000, or 25,000. And I will say I’m super proud of my kids. They have they have emergency funds, all three of them, and they’re 1215 and 17. Now, they have emergency funds. They have college savings accounts that they’re contributing to. They’re really savvy consumers, they price shop, they read reviews, they figure out what they’re going to spend money on. That makes sense, not just frivolous. They always have cash. on hand, they have not asked for money from my wife, or Hi, in the last five years, not once asked for money. They know that they can make it. They know that they can come up with ideas, you know, we have, we have a thing called the family 401k plan. And if they read books on money, and they tell me what they learn from it, I’ll give them 10 bucks per book. So they have ways of making it extra. But it’s all based on what I want them to learn. So I’m trying to foster the idea that by the time they’re 18, they are fully functioning capable adults to be out on their own if that’s the case.

Krisstina Wise [32:37]
Yeah, and I mean, we just think about how that setting them up for a different future.

Adam Carrol [32:42]
Totally. Totally.

Krisstina Wise [32:44]
Just robbing our kids if that education opportunity.

Adam Carrol [32:49]
Yes. I can’t tell you the number of people I’ve talked to that when I when I say Hey, your kids are graduating, you know, this is awesome. And they’re like, yeah, we’re a little nervous to say I’m off to school because we think we’ve done a pretty good job raising that we’re just not they have no idea about money. And, you know, the challenge for me having spoke I’ve spoken on 750 college campuses at this point. I know what those kids are up against, they’ll go onto a college campus, they’ll get bombarded with pre approved credit card offers. They have access to student loans, rampantly, and they’re gonna make decisions based on nine year old mindset programming of my dad always said, If I wanted it, I could get it. Every time I went to Target I got a toy. So now every time I go anywhere, I’m going to buy something. And that’s the logic they’re using. And they’ll end up massively massively in debt. That’s my fear.

Krisstina Wise [33:44]
Yeah. All right. Well, let’s shift gears a little bit. We’re in the middle of COVID. Right now, what is has this changed anything from your point of view? What are you seeing? What are you noticing? What’s your what’s your overall financial perspective?

Adam Carrol [33:58]
Yeah. One of the things that I think has become crystal clear for me is this is a wake up call for a lot of people. And to all the folks that, you know, they are panicked about, where’s the next paycheck going to come from? Or am I going to be able to make my rent or make pay my bills? That’s a very scary thing. And it what it has done is it has shone a spotlight on the fact that the majority of Americans really are living paycheck to paycheck. I mean, I think that that urgency to get stimulus checks out right away, was very interesting. And I think the majority of those probably went to food and rent for the most part, although reports are coming out, saying a lot of it went to savings and deleveraging and things like that, which is also intelligent, I guess. But I think by and large, what it has shown is that, number one, we don’t nearly need, everything that we have, we could live very, very simply My hope is the silver. My hope is that the silver lining in all of this is that people get back to a more simpler time. And they realize that taking walks with family at night is actually a really good, you know, a good way to spend your time that you don’t need to buy clothing every single week. But that just clogs your closet and drains your bank account. That you know you can learn to cook from home and there’s a ton of great stuff on YouTube about how to cook healthy at home. That’s pretty cool. We don’t need the gym necessarily. We can work out at home with the channel. bodyweight warrior on YouTube is one of my favorites now and you know take yoga with Adrian online and stuff like that. So my hope is that the silver lining is that people realize we can get back to a simpler time. But from a cash flow perspective. One of the things for me that is really, I think is cemented in my mind is we’ve got to teach people how to be more efficient with their cash flow. that some folks they’re their payments. themselves into corners, by financing everything that they have. And there’s a better way. And we got to show them the better way of how to leverage their cash flow on a monthly basis to build wealth, reduce debt, you know, sure, pay your expenses and have fun, do good, but ultimately be growing in your wealth over time so that by the time you do reach near retirement age, you’re like, I got this this is this is no, no big deal.

Krisstina Wise [36:28]
So what do you mean efficient with cash flow?

Adam Carrol [36:32]
Well, so our income is the most powerful thing we have right? For most people, their income allows them to pay their bills and live in the home. They do drive the car they do. But I think the misnomer is that we treat our income like this ever present thing. We’re always going to make it we’re always going to make eventually more and so we start to build our lifestyle based on what we can afford from a payment perspective. What I would rather people do is realize that your income is this tool. And it’s a really powerful tool if you use it right. And the income should do it should do for things on a monthly basis, or bi weekly basis, whenever you’re paid. It should pay your expenses. It should build wealth. It should eliminate debt. And you should be able to do good and have fun with it. Those are the four things do good, have fun are kind of tied hand in hand. What most people do really well as they pay expenses, they have fun. And they never get to eliminating debt. They never get to building wealth. And they wake up 20 or 30 years later and go, where did all that time go? And how much how, how much or how little Am I going to get with social security and how am I going to make this work? So here’s what I mean by making your cash flow efficient. If your income is doing all four of those things, then what it would mean is your understanding how debt works for you. And against you. And when we start looking at things like mortgages and car loans, student loans, realizing that compound interest it really does end up costing a lot of money over time, then part of our goal and that eliminating debt is realizing how quickly we could actually if this arrayed our debt with the cash flow that we have and then building strategies around how to do that and and you know, candidly that’s what I love to teach people how to do is think really differently about their cash flow and then learn how to create some efficiencies around it that eliminate their debt and build wealth over time.

Krisstina Wise [38:40]
Yeah, well said I love the simplification of the the four parts. And here’s another question for you. I mean, you’re in the money coaching business and since it you coach, you train you teach through speaking through online programs through private coaching and consultation and I’m the same. What is why do you think people don’t want to spend money to learn about money, which is one of the most fundamental, most important things, in my opinion, to have a good mastery of it doesn’t have to be mastery level, but just enough knowledge to know the four things to know how to move your money in a way that’s going to work for you versus against you. And, and I’m guessing you you bump up with the same thing. It’s like the money’s not working. It’s like, No, I think I can figure it out on my own or now I die. I’m not going to spend money to learn this thing. So that’s a head scratcher for me as well. So I’m curious for your point of view on that.

Adam Carrol [39:42]
I think it’s hard for people to read the label on the outside of the jar, when they’re stuck on the inside. And I use that analogy all the time, in the work that I do with people because they’ll say I’m doing this I’m doing this but I just can’t do I just can’t get ahead. I can’t. Whatever getting ahead means Saving $1,000 paying off my credit card, getting rid of student loans, whatever it may be becoming a millionaire as an example.

And so

me helping Peter on that, right now, at this moment in time, your life is perfectly engineered for the results that you’re getting. And that’s a hard one for people to grasp. Your life is perfectly engineered to get the results you’re getting. The reason you don’t have $1,000 emergency fund is because you’re stopping at Kwik Trip or whatever the local convenience store is on an every other day basis. And you’re grabbing a candy bar and a red bowl. And what you don’t realize is it’s $6 but you’re doing it 15 times a month. And that’s $90 that could get you closer to your thousand dollar emergency fun. And then when people look at it, they’re like, Oh, yeah, I am. And then we start peeling back then and why do you do that? Well, I have this sugar You know, I need a sugar rush. At the end of the day. Well, why is that? Well, because I’m going to bed late. Why do you go to bed late while watching a ton of TV? Oh, interesting. And why do you do that? Well, it’s an escape from my life. Okay, and what are you trying to escape from, and we just start peeling it back. The greatest thing that if someone could do is hire someone like you or me, and go, let me hold up the mirror that you are not seeing and show you all the things you’re doing and then peel back the onion as to why you’re doing them to get to the root thing. That is actually just this perpetual cycle that you’re in. And if we can break the cycle on any one of those things, like, Okay, how about we do this for a week? Don’t watch TV late at night. Instead, go for a walk, read a book and then go to bed at 10 o’clock. And then let’s see what happens the next day how you feel and whether or not you have energy and if you do, you don’t stop at the convenience store to grab your snack. You save $90 Oh look, you just put 150 $50 away this month. And now we can actually start showing them some real results. But it requires that people trust that maybe they do need an outside help. And the best metaphor or analogy I can give, I think to your audience for this is, my basement is unfinished. I want to finish my basement. I for sure I’m not going to do it myself. It would take me forever, I’d be bad at it. It wouldn’t be straight, it wouldn’t be level. The drywall would never be finished. My wife would hate it. I’d rather hire a professional to help me do it. And I’m going to get it done in record time. And yes, I’m going to invest some, but I’m going to love the results. At the end of it. I’m going to love it.

Krisstina Wise [42:44]
I really like the metaphor. You can’t see the label from the inside of the jar. And it is true. We’re all stuck in our patterns and only what we can see from the information that we have and that’s a really great quote as well. Your life is perfectly engineered to get the results. You’re getting Yeah, you know, it’s true. It’s just truth right there.

Adam Carrol [43:05]
I my buddy, Chad Carden who’s one of my business partners he’s always saying hey, listen man no one’s gonna do the push ups for you and and that’s part of it too is like if we’re gonna do the work we got to do the work

Krisstina Wise [43:20]
yeah, and what do you say what do you say with those you know they’re making really good money and the mindset is there’s more where that came from I’m good at making money if I get low I can just kind of push the the easy money making button because a lot of the people I work with their their high income entrepreneurs in the sense that they need money they’ll just go put out a new offer do something have a really successful launch and bingo, there’s there’s a bunch of zeros that just pop up in the bank account. So that becomes the pattern with this belief like I don’t have to do this other stuff because I just go make more money. Yep.

Adam Carrol [43:58]
Yeah, I I have stuff This model, there’s a number of models in the business world that I’ve kind of converted over to the money side of things. But I think people go through three pits in their life. They go through the pit of despair, which is like, how am I ever going to get out of this? And you have to be you have to create discipline and, and systems in order to get out of the pit of despair. So things like paying off your debt, not using a credit card, going to cash. I think Dave Ramsey’s done a fairly effective job of giving people a very, very simple system to follow, to get out of the pit of despair. Then there’s the next pit and the next pit is a hard one to get out of its the pit of complacency. And the pit of complacency is the one where you’re like, I’m good. I’m totally good. I’m set I’m, I’m fully funding my Roth IRA. I got money in my 401k or my SEP IRA. I’m good. We get new cars every three years. Totally good, right. But what they don’t realize is that being in the pit of complacency doesn’t allow you to get to the next level, which is where you feel really significant in life. And I think significance happens when your money is not just for you, it’s for the betterment of society. You’re setting up scholarship funds, you’re, you know, you’re helping build wells in Africa. You’re building schools and places that need it, right. It’s all those kinds of programs. And I think that some people when they get out of the pit of complacency, they then get into the pit of boredom. And the pit of boredom is where you’re like, Okay, how many times can I golf or do whatever before? What do I do next? Like I think I’m purely speculating. But I think some professional athletes that are making 10s of millions of dollars, they’re in the pit of boredom. Like I think Michael Jordan turned to gambling because he was bored. You know, the athletes that do that, versus the you know, the Kobe Bryant’s who was building businesses and creating legacies and doing all this thing to really build a significant life for himself and a legacy. And so I think for those those entrepreneurs that can make money at the flip of a switch, the question needs to be even bigger, like, what do you want your legacy to be? Not that you made a lot of money? What is the money for? Huh? And Who is it for? And what’s the bigger purpose of the money? I really believe I heard a speaker say this one time, I truly believe it, that we were put on this earth not to be employed. We were put on this earth to be deployed. And when you figure out what your deployment is, you know, for me, it’s helping people build a bigger life, which might mean you know, I’ve said free yourself to be yourself for a long time for yourself might mean just creating a smaller lifestyle. So life gets really big and you get to go do whatever it is you want to do. For some people, that might mean creating a massive scholarship campaign program for For someone else it might be fully funding the nonprofit that they cherish and hold dear locally. But whatever it is, what is that legacy thing? And how can we help you get there?

Before it’s too late before you’re too old to enjoy it.

Krisstina Wise [47:16]
Wow, okay, I love that too. You’re amazing. All right, it’s we’re bumping up against my goodness, this has gone by so fast. Do you mind can you quickly share a little bit about your shred method?

Adam Carrol [47:30]
Yeah, I would love to and thank you for asking about it. Christina, the shred method. It really is this whole idea of what do you do with your cash flow? And the minor switch that we’re making, just to give you kind of the high level is most people they get paid the money goes into a checking account and they pay their bills out of it. They pay their mortgage, they pay their car payment, living expenses, and anything extra if there is any, generally is supposed to go to either savings or investment Although we all know it generally goes to Costco and dining out, right, I mean, that’s Oregon’s target Costco dining out. My wife says, I’m the only guy who can go into Costco with a shopping list and come out with a kayak. But it’s true. I’ve seen people do it like, Well, I didn’t think I was gonna buy an 90 inch television, but it was such a good deal I just decided to. So instead, what the shred method teaches people to do is leverage this tool that most people have at their disposal, but they never use for this purpose. And that tool is a home equity line of credit or a personal line of credit. What the shred method really does, Christina is it teaches you how to play the bank’s game, any lenders game against themselves. And the beautiful part about a line of credit is a line of credit is like a two way street. money goes in and money comes out and it does that ever Single, it could do that every day, every week, every month every year, money goes in, money goes out, money goes in, money goes out. What most people use their line of credit for are things like, well, I’m doing this massive home renovation project. So I’m going to borrow 40 grand on my line of credit, or I’m going to buy a boat. So I put $25,000 on my line of credit. And what I want you to use your line of credit for is for cash flow purposes. So your income instead of going into a checking account just just goes into the line of credit. And you pay all your bills right out of your line of credit, just like you would normally the difference is that at the end of the week or two week period or month, there’s gonna be room left on that line of credit. If you’ve had money leftover at the end of the month, that money that normally went to savings or investing. You’re going to have a little bit of money leftover but you’re also going to have room on that line of credit that you could leverage against some of your your longer term, compound interest debts, student loans credit cards, car loans and mortgages. And by using the shred method, what will happen very simply, is that income that’s supposed to be doing four things, paying expenses, eliminating debt, building wealth and doing good and having fun, you get to do all four of those things using the shredder. And the difference is, after a very short amount of time, you will have save not just thousands of dollars or 10s of thousands of dollars. But if you’re paying on a mortgage, you literally will have saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest. And those payments that get invested over time turn into millions and millions of dollars. And so what I can do at the shred method.com, I can show just about any person that has some money left over at the end of the month, how you could become a multi multi millionaire in your lifetime, just by shifting the way you think about how your money goes through your household.

Krisstina Wise [50:56]
All right, I love that so I’ve not done the shred Method yet, but you’ve piqued my curiosity. It’s It’s It’s just a tool. It’s everything that I teach, for example, you’ve just set it up in a very specific way using this as a tool. Yeah, to do what we’re teaching very easily within disciplined in a disciplined fashion, and using and using the bank’s money which

Adam Carrol [51:19]
There we go. So your point about why are people hesitant to spend money on advice? I think they’re afraid of it’s too complicated. And the reality is that people like you and I, what we do really well i think is we simplify things to the ridiculous of where someone go, Well, if it was that easy. Why Why isn’t everybody I hear this all the time. Why bother using that? I’m like, well, because people overcomplicate things

Krisstina Wise [51:46]
when the industry Yeah, the industry keeps it complicated for a reason. But same thing people go through my programs and saying, you may have been afraid of this thing my entire life and it’s actually this simple. This big ol beast Like the, you know, the, the shadow IT night when it looks like this big monster and it’s just, you know, just a, you know, a little hand puppet type thing? I’m like, yeah, it’s really this easy, you know, seriously. So it looks like you know, you’ve created your own methodology for Yeah, I don’t know why everybody it’s available for everyone.

Adam Carrol [52:19]
It is it’s available. It’s, it requires, it requires one thing. candidly, it requires a little bit of discipline. And if you have some discipline around, you know, are you making sure there is money left over to your point at the very beginning of this, it’s very simple, spend less than you make. And if you can get that habit of doing that, then the shred method essentially says, okay, so whatever is left, what are we going to do with that to make sure that it is as efficient as humanly possible to get you to the point you want to get to in record time? Yeah, yeah.

Krisstina Wise [52:54]
All right. Well, a few other and we’ll put all the links and everything to this in the show notes. few final questions. If you said, Christina, if you really really really knew me, you would know that

Adam Carrol [53:13]
if you really really knew me, you would know that I am an insane Billy Joel fan. And I once paid an enormous amount of money for front row tickets at a Billy Joel elton john concert.

Krisstina Wise [53:26]
That’s awesome. I love it. All right, good to know yourself. Alright, so a little brag moment, tell me something you’re really really proud of that a lot of people don’t know.

Adam Carrol [53:39]
I am really proud of the fact that not well, can I do to my kids, because they’re amazing. And they’re, they are like, exceptional humans in their own right. You know, and I’m super proud of that. The second thing I’m really proud of is I did a documentary on student loan debt with a with a partner of mine by the name of Calvin Johansen and Calvin and I had an idea. We mindmap the idea on a whiteboard. we brainstorm how we’re going to do it created a crowdfunding campaign successfully funded it. Built what I think is an amazing documentary, and then sold it to CNBC, which everyone said we wouldn’t be able to do. And so I’m super proud of the fact that we took something from an idea to what I think anyone would say, as a commercial success. Having never done it before.

Krisstina Wise [54:34]
Wow, that’s awesome. Yeah, your TED talks are pretty cool that everybody, I’m gonna put a link to your TED Talk. It’s so good. And yeah, very cool.

Adam Carrol [54:44]
I’m proud of that. That was that was I mean, that went viral. And I, I’m still kind of like in awe of how 5 million plus people have seen it.

Krisstina Wise [54:53]
Yeah, that’s what’s it’s so good. All right. So one final question to wrap us up. I like to do a little myth busting. So give me a myth, what’s a big fat lie that you’d like to bust?

Adam Carrol [55:04]
Ooh, that’s a good, big fat myth that I’d like to bust. I’m the one because it relates to the shred method. And I come across it all the time that a mortgage is the cheapest money you’ll ever get. And I know that a lot of people will say, three and a half percent is the cheapest money I could ever have. And yet, what they’re not paying attention to is how much compound interest is paid in the first 10 years of that three and a half or 4% mortgage. And what you could do to actually create, you know, a 30 or 40% cash on cash return in that same mortgage, using something like the shred method. So when I hear people say, Oh, never pay that off, that’s silly. And I look at my situation and there’s and I don’t share this to boast or brag or be a big shot, but I paid off my house at 42 You know, we’re liquid or liquid is anybody and in our way to complete and total financial freedom in short order, and not a lot of people my age can say that and I want to teach people how to do it. So that’s my myth. Like there’s a reason to pay off your mortgage and you can do it faster than you ever thought possible.

Krisstina Wise [56:17]
And I’m there with you I’m completely debt free. My house is paid off and anything that I get to your point that peace of mind that comes with that you just don’t even know it tell you you’ve been there and so Yeah, right there with you. But Congrats, because not too many people can say that. Well, thank you so much for spending your time with us with me. You’re just you’ve got such beautiful energy. And I love that your, your intention and mission to help others. I just see you do it all with heart and you’re just a good dad, a good husband. Doing good works in the world. So we need more of you.

Adam Carrol [56:56]
Cool. Thank you, Christina. I appreciate that immensely. Thank you so much. You’re welcome.

Krisstina Wise [57:05]
If you’re inspired by today’s show, and you’re the kind of person who likes to help others, there are some easy ways that you can help me. First, please subscribe to the wealthy, wealthy podcast. By doing so. It helps both of us. You’ll never miss an episode and it helps me and my ratings. And if you’re able to leave a review, hopefully five stars even better. Finally, if you think your friends and family would enjoy the show, I invite you to share the wealthy wealthy podcast with everyone you know. If you have any questions, I’m here you can email me at support at wealthy wealthy calm, and I may even use your question or suggestion for a future podcast episode. Also, if you want to be motivated and inspired more regularly connect with me on Instagram or LinkedIn at Christina wise, that’s ke ri s s ti na WISE. I believe we are all on This journey together towards finding our sovereignty and freedom. And I’d love to be part of your journey. I’d love to help you, and especially on the financial side, so learn more at sovereignty. academy.com. As always, thank you so much for listening and being part of the wealthy, wealthy community.